Urgent Care :: Soft Shell...HELP!!!

[RonnWilliams]

Hello All.

I've noticed that my 1.5" RES' shell is starting to become soft around the edge and on the sides. I've had him for about 4 weeks (I found him near a river). Last weekend, I finally found a good UVB bulb. Yesterday I started giving him some cuttlebone and using water conditioner to get rid of chlorine. He has a basking area, but I have not seen him bask this week.

Here are my questions...

1) Should I "force" him to bask by taking him out of water and put him under the lamps or outside?

2) Should I get a water conditioner that gets rid of ammonia?

3) What could be causing this and WHAT SHOULD I DO REVERSE THIS CONDITION?

[Nettle]

Cuttlebone and a UVB light are key to shell health, so you did very good there, but it will probably take some time for it to take effect. A soft shell could be a result of metabolic bone disease, but is also normal for newborn hatchlings.

1) I wouldn't go against suggesting dry docking him under some lights for a couple hours a day. Just make sure the temp stays around 90.

2) Ammonia is definitely bad, but I'm not sure how to get rid of it.

3) You've already done all you can and if it continues to worsen then a vet check is in order.

[TheComputerGremlin]

How do you know the ammonia level is high? Have you tested it? Ammonia doesn't hurt the turtles, per se, but the only way I know to get rid of it is to use an ammonia neutralizing carbon insert in your filter.

What is your setup like? Tank size? Gallons of water? Filtration? Basking area?

[SpotsMama]

In addition to carbon in a filter, there are three ways to get rid or or neutralize ammonia:

1. Change the water.

2. Use biofiltration. A biofilter consists of filter media (stars and rings) with lots of surface area on which ammonia and nitrite neutralizing bacteria can colonize. This is one of nature's ways of dealing with ammonia buildup.

3. Aquatic plants are fertilized (consume) nitrite, which is the byproduct of the breakdown of ammonia. This is well and good except that one of the plants that grows most enthusiastically in an environment high in nitrite is algae, which turns the water green and murky.

The only way to know for sure that ammonia is being neutralized in a tank is to test the water. A good home test kit is the Master Freshwater Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmeceuticals. It comes with good directions and lots of test solution so you can do many tests before having to buy another kit.

Are you sure your turtle's shell is getting softer? Normally, baby turtles' shells are rather flexible (not floppy). The shells harden over their first year of life until they are completely hard all over. The shell at the back near the tail is the last part to harden. Is is possible your turtle's shell has been flexible all along and you are just now noticing it?

[industrial_girl_2000]

1.5 inch turtles often have flexible shells, especially around the tail area. I have even seen some turtles continue to have some of this flexibility until they reach about 4 inches in length.

In the meantime, continue offering cuttlebone & greens & the UVB light. To encourage basking, you can also add a UVA light (UVA provides more heat and encourages them to get out of the water to bask).

Some turtles get nervous when there is a lot of activity around them & won't get out of the water to bask because of the activity.

Also, the water temp should be around 78-80 degrees F for a hatchling, which means that the basking area should be about 90 (minimum of 10 degrees warmer than the water). This temperature difference will also encourage your little turtle to get out of the water to "warm up" like they do in the wild.

[marisa]

If you say you've noticed the shell getting softer, was it noticeably harder when you first got him? If you say you haven't seen him bask this week, was he basking before?

What kind of basking area do you have for him? Is it easy to get on? Does he have privacy when he basks?

What kind of UVB light are you using? Getting him outside for some sunshine would be good, as would increasing the calcium in his diet, as you said you're doing.

[RonnWilliams]

Thanks everyone for your input!

I think I mis-spoke earlier. I haven't "checked" before about the hardness of his shell, I just recently noticed that it was soft and flexable. It may have been soft all along?? It's good to know that hatchlings tend to have soft shells.

I haven't checked the ammonia levels. I was just warned by a pet store owner that ammonia can build up and harm turtles. I've started using a water conditioner to get rid of the chlorine because the tap water in my town uses a lot of chlorine to disinfect the drinking water.

TheComputerGremlin.... you asked "What is your setup like? Tank size? Gallons of water? Filtration? Basking area?" I just upgraded his tank to a 20 gal tank that's filled with about 15 gal of water with rocks/bricks and a stick for basking/ climbing. I have seen him bask over the weekend since I posted this thread. He now has a Tetra Whisper 30 Power Filter (that has mechanical and biological filtration).

SpotsMama....I do change the water regularly. Thanks for the heads up. I have been thinking about water plants. Any plants you suggest to keep the ammonia low? The pet store in town has only a few plants to choose from.

industrial_girl_2000...He has a UVA/heat light (Zoo Med basking bulb) and a UVB light (Exo-Terra Repti Glo 5.0 Compact Tropical 26 watts bulb). The water temp is usually around 76-80 degrees. I haven't measured the temp of the basking area, but the heat lamp is about 7 inches or so from the basking area. What type of thermometer should I use to measure the basking area temp?

marisa... I have seen him bask before. He has resumed basking and after his tank was upgraded, I've noticed him basking even more. His basking area is relatively easily accessable. He tends to use a stick I have next to his basking rock to climb up there. Since the rock is also some kind of sandstone, he can climb directly on the rock from the water (I guess he can easily grab onto the sand particles in the rock). There are several access paths I've seen him use. He does not have "privacy" when he basks. Do you mean curtains or rocks around the area? I'm using a Exo-Terra Repti Glo 5.0 Compact Tropical 26 watts bulb.

[megcornell]

Ronn: in response to your responses:
The best way to keep ammonia low is to have your filter cycling properly. This also means you'll need an adequate filter for how large your turtle is and how large the tank is. Generally, you'll need 3x the filter strength, so a 30 gallon filter for a 10 gallon tank and so on. Keep in mind if you have a turtle in a tank that is much too small for it, no amount of filtration will keep the water balanced.

As for your set up, it sounds great for a hatchling, but he'll quickly out grow it.
You will also want to look into a better basking area. Bricks are very abrasive and can injure turtle shells. With tinier turtles, the floating docks make a nice basking area because they don't take away from swimming space.

I use a simple glass thermometer to check my basking temps. I lay it on the dock and read it 10 minutes later and then take it out. You want to avoid glass thermometers in turtle tanks because they can eat them. For the water temperature, digital thermometers work well both because of their accuracy and their tendency to be hardy (my turtles have figured out how to break them yet ).

In terms of privacy, a lot of times, young or new turtles will be shy about basking so if your tank is in a busy area of your house you can put paper on the sides of the tank to make your turtle feel safer. If he's already basking, you may not need to do this.

[RonnWilliams]

megcornell... that's very helpful. I just use bricks to place the basking rocks or "steps" on. I'll try to post a pic ASAP. I heard the floating basking logs get eaten by turtles. I'm afraid to put anything artificial in there. He’s from the wild.

A few more questions/comments, y'all...

Pyramiding...Is this characterized by a progressive ridge forming in the middle of the shell? Is this normal? I've read on here it's more so defined as clusters of scales (referred to as "schutes" I believe) making tiny pyramid throughout the shell.

Feeding...
This head rule...Many people say to feed the turtle only the amount of pellets that will fit in his head. That's hard for me to imagine. He's 1.5" long and now can eat about 5-10 pellets twice a day within a few minutes. Is this two much?

Live fishes...How often should I feed red rosies? If I feed him a 2-3 fishes, I only feed him a few pellets. Are dead fish ok (when I bring the feeder fish home, they tend to die over night)? Should I avoid feeder gold fishes all together? That's the only feeder fish that will be available in my town.

I've also been reading on here that gravel is bad because turtles will eat it. I just put some gravel in Timmy's tank this weekend. I just I'll remove it tonight.

Feel free to add to this thread or PM me.

[Nettle]

The ridge you're describing is normal for all hatchlings. They eventually grow out of it, but don't worry, that's not pyramiding.

This is pyramiding:



Live fish should only be a once a month treat and goldfish are very high in fat so it's not recommended. Overfeeding (fish or otherwise) can lead to the above pictures.

Turtles eat gravel which can cause impaction. Even if you think "Not my turtle," chances are he's eating his happy little way into an intestinal blockage. Anything smaller than his head is a no go.

[ChocoTurtle]

My RES is like that too but only near the tail area

[SpotsMama]

Here's a real cute thread on how to measure the right amount of pellets using the headfull rule:

http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11368

It's kind of hard to say how many pellets is right for your turtle because it depends on the size of the pellets as well as the size of your turtle's head. Some pellets are large, some are small. I think my turtle would gobble up several headfulls in "a few minutes", given the chance.