Urgent Care :: Constant eye blinking and Constipation

[oriracoonrella]

Sigh. I guess it all begun around 3 weeks ago when I noticed him clicking his mouth more often (I'll hear it about once a day).. and defecating not as regularly (used to be everyday). I thought he needed more sunlight but there hasn't been much these days so I took out the MVB and put him underneath without knowing they need a burn period I also saw him breathing with his mouth open twice, once on 10th april and once on the 20th, the latter which looked like he was panting for 5 seconds. Which there was a small water bubble that popped when he clicked his mouth after the 'panting'

His 3 days constipation started on the 15th. Bought him for a deep water swim on the 18th and fed him there and the weird blinking and rubbing started after that. His eyes were slightly puffy when he'd close them after a few blinks. The next morning he pooped a little and stopped blinking so much. So I thought the blinking might have to do with UV over exposure. Also, during the 3 days he'd not go up on his 'basking area' and prefer to stay in the shallow water.

He stopped blinking on the 21st and pooped a bit so I thought things were back to normal until last night on the 22nd, I brought him for another deep water swim and his blinking recurred. He continued to behave weirdly in his shallow water tank, constantly digging around in the water as if he's still swimming and drinking a lot as he does that. It didn't stop for two hours or so, so I took him out and found him a bit puffier than usual. He also did the holding in breath + neck enlarging thing for ten seconds and did a weird yawn. This was when his eyes looked really puffy.

23rd in the morning he was still blinking a bit, he'd mostly close his eyes and rest and his eyes still look kinda puffy when closed. Then he pooped a lot (but ate it, all we saw was the water was dirtier than when he pooped only a bit) Brought him to the vet. The vet said he can't determine anything yet so he gave him a vitamin shot, and prescribed 5 more for self injection. When he came home there was sunlight for 10 minutes so I put him under there. He's still active when roaming outside and when begging for food, he has a good appetite like usual. But he got tired after his meal and mostly rested in the water with his eyes closed (It's a long day for him at the vets') By this time his eyes looked fairly normal even when closed. It's bedtime now.

Diet wise, on that day when the blinking started I fed him cucumbers, lettuce and bananas instead of his daily pellets and chyesim because I was trying to get him poop. Since then until today, I still fed him daily, reduced his pellets and chyesim and increased lettuce. And also bluberry (not daily)

Some background, he couldn't swim when he was a baby and still isn't a very good swimmer, so he'd always lived in shallow water. He also wheezes when he swims. I think he might be overweight, he eats his poop but we can't control that He never had any basking and lighting system, we'd always used the natural sunlight. So, yeah....

[steve]

Any affect from the UVB usually happens pretty quickly. As in the report, most of the symptoms ended just as quickly by themselves once the UVB stopped. Did the vet offer any antibiotics, even for the eyes?

[oriracoonrella]

I see. Nope, no antibiotics after he ruled out RI.

He looks and behaves completely normal today, no deep water swims for him for the moment I guess.
He's pooping fine too. Will it be good if I continue giving him the vitamin shots?

[steve]

I would probably stop with the vitamins.

[oriracoonrella]

Ok~

[oriracoonrella]

My baby has been defecating but not daily. And it seems like the waste is sparse and not firm like how it was before. I can't really tell because he might have ate it (but I've seen some sparse fibre-y ones under a minute after I put him back to the tank, not enough time for him to eat it) Compared to how it is now, he used to defecate a lot and his waste were very smelly... His water seems a bit cloudy today. But in the past his water will get cloudy sometimes which I assume it's his... secretion?... but I'm not entirely sure. For about a week now, I've been feeding him papaya, lettuce, cucumber, sweet potato and around 8 pellets a day.

Seems like he still has the blinking and swollen eyes problem whenever I give a warm water soak for more than ten minutes in fairly shallow water, even though they weren't as severe as when he swam in deep water. They usually go away in half a day.

I've seen him yawning/gaping weirdly twice this week. Once underwater...

Now I'm concerned if these has got to do with his renal/eliminating system... what should I do? Could the blinking and swelling be caused by water retention?

I did a search online and found this: http://www.reptaid.com/reptaidadministerTURTS.htm Do you think this (Reptaid) may help? Or any probiotics for turtles? Maybe it would help his digestive system get back on track first before determining other problems... if any, which I hope not.

Also, the one vitamin injection he had at the vet's last monday shouldn't be of any harm, right?

[steve]

Has he always been a regular and consistent pooper while in your care? How long has he been on this new diet (papaya, lettuce, cucumber, sweet potato)?

Are you saying the blinking subsides after he's been in the water for long periods of time? When do you make water changes, and what's your water source?

He's probably OK from the injection (I don't have a complete grasp of everything that's going on, so it's hard to give advice). I'd hold off the Reptaid (not much info on it at all).

[oriracoonrella]

Actually, he used to live with my female RES until October last year and I'll know when he poops a lot if the water get very dirty and smelly. But because he eats it up (including my girl's poop) I can't really tell From October until now he's been quite consistent, even though sometimes I really cannot tell how much he pooped because he eats them up, but bits of uneaten 'crumbs' can be seen, they were quite solid looking. It was only the past two weeks that I've noticed his water isn't getting dirty at all for up to 2-3 days, quite sure he wasn't pooping. Plus his twice a week gapings and daily clickings (past 2-3 weeks that I've noticed) is making me monitor him closer. Then the blinking/swelling happened after feeding him in deep water on the 18th

He's been on this new diet only for a week.

The blinking subsides after he stops submerging his head in the water 'swimming' and drinking. It subsides while he rests in shallow water or on land. I change their water everyday in the evening before their meal time. I use tap water, I heard tap water in Singapore is quite safe? We drink tap water too, but we boil ours for drinking and the turtles' water is straight from the tap. What kind of water will be ideal?

Hmm, the vet is kind of new (my usual vet is on leave), he couldn't determine what this is so he said it might be nutrition problems even though he's eating a renowned brand pellet (Mazuri) so he decided to prescribe the vitamin shot He said he's never seen any cases like that. He called today to check on my turtle and said it might be RI after all if the gaping occurs 3-4 times a day, which I didn't see, and that he doesn't have enough evidence to administer antibiotics yet...

Do you think probiotics like Bene Bac for reptiles will help?

Thank you always for the patient advices even though this feels really tricky

[steve]

I'm not sure where to start. Why were they separated? For the eye blinking, I would look into the water quality for now. Are you using a water conditioner? What's the filter and media like? How big is his tank? Are you using warm/hot water from the tap?

[oriracoonrella]

Oh, I've also noticed water coming out from his mouth thrice in the past three weeks. Once it was when he'd just finished eating, I placed him on land to roam about and somehow startled him, and he spilled water on the floor from his mouth (This was before his blinking/swelling) The second time a water bubble popped from his mouth just after he 'clicked' his mouth. Third was today when he was resting before bedtime, the upper half of his body on land and lower half in shallow water, and there's a droplet of water hanging on his chin, otherwise he was quite dry.

My female turtle bit and injured his eye and he was on antibiotics for 5 days

Nope I'm not using a water conditioner. Hmm, there's no filtration in the tank, but if you mean the filtration of my water source then I have no idea... it's just water straight from the tap.. I'm not using warm/hot water, it's regular room temp water from the tap (around 27 deg C) His tank is very small, it's a plastic container... but this is already the biggest plastic container I can find I was in the midst of reorganizing my house to build a better environment for my turtles when this happened.

So you do not think this is related to renal or organ dysfunctions?

[steve]

How much time do you think passed between him being dry and the water coming out?

What was the extent of the eye injury? Has it completely healed? When did this happen?

I can't really tell what's going on. I don't think it's related to organ disfunction, but a vet would be able to tell better than I can. How is his appetite?

[oriracoonrella]

Maybe 20-30mins? For the most recent one...

The skin on his eyelid peeled off and he was bleeding. Yes he's completely healed, it happened last October.

I might have to wait for my usual vet for advice. This new vet said even if it's related to organ disfunction, they wouldn't really be able to test for it on turtles? But he said kidney failure in turtles are very rare, and turtles with the condition would be very swollen and turgid no matter in and out of the water... They do have a turtle with that problem who is on long term diuretics to drain out the water.

His appetite is good as usual. I'm concerned about possible fluid retention or early stages of organ dysfunctions, as he had quite a bad diet for most of his life. I hope it's just my guilt and paranoia of not being able to give them good living conditions that I'm imagining these things...

[steve]

A blood test can always be done to check for disease and organ function.

[oriracoonrella]

Ok, I'll ask my usual vet about that. Thank you steve~

[oriracoonrella]

Btw, do you think I can try out the Bene bac probiotics for reptiles and see if his bowels improve? Have you heard about any feedback from turtle owners who have used it?