theartbook35 wrote:I have to disagree with you on that one. Environment helps, but turtles are learning machines. Every little bit counts for something.
Compared to other reptiles, turtles are much observant of what goes on in and out of their habitat. They are a very active and interactive species. The don't stare at you and swim around vigorously just for food. I've seen one of my turtles behave like this, only to realize food was not the interest, and it was her wanting attention. (Amusing actually. Hurricane only wants to run across my hands like crazy, then stare around the room at all the different things. When she stares at something for a long time, I usually bring her closer to it, in which case makes her always want to find something new).
Where did you learn that?
In the experience that I've had in keeping different reptiles, I'd have to say that turtles aren't very attentive creatures. They also seem to be more tentative than larger reptiles. I believe that to be because of their size.
I'd also challenge you on why they stare and swim at you. Turtles are smart creatures and they know who feeds them. Their primary objective in life is to get as much food as possible, not to play with the big head above their tank. When you feed your turtle, he learns that you = food. And when they swim around you in the tank, I'd bet it's in search of food (because that is what they've associated with you) or in fear/anger from you invading their space. I've seen this in my own turtle, because he swims at me when I come to the tank, but not to my husband. But now, my husband has the summer off so he feeds the turtle now and now my turtle doesn't swim at me anymore, he swims at my husband.
theartbook35 wrote:
I handle my turtles frequently, such as petting their feet and heads, holding them closely, and things of that nature.
And you've said that your turtles bite at you when you try and touch them. You've even suggested making a game out of your turtles fear by making them chase you. When they bite and hiss at you it's not because they enjoy what you're doing.
theartbok35 wrote:
These two will hide under each other, hold each others feet, follow each other around, and even touch noses sometimes. I have hiding places for them of course, which is something all reptiles should have, territorial or not. They both are currently living in a tank that is too small, with a much larger tank on the way.
Recently, they had a strange space battle after a tank cleaning, and it wasn't until I took one of them out and pet her for a while, that she calmed down. In fact, I haven't seen them fluttering for a couple of weeks, since I've been interacting with them more. They always eat together, and only need to be separated when eating carrots.
Just because they are reptiles doesn't mean they don't want to be social.
I'm not saying they get along perfectly. No pets get along perfectly when they live together. No humans get along perfectly when they live together. The only time Typhoon ever gets upset with Hurricane, is when Hurricane flutters way too much, or when she wants Hurricane's carrot. No matter what set up, everyone needs a break from each other once in a while. Providing them with some alone time seems to being helping.
I don't think it will happen, but I am prepared to separate them if need be. Only issue would be that Typhoon does not like to be alone. She knows when she's in that tank by herself, and unless it's break time, she becomes extremely stressed out. Ty is so attached to Cane it's ridiculous. And of course, if Cane lived by herself, she wouldn't care.
I never said anything about reptiles not being social creatures. I have two very social reptiles that I handle quite often. But turtles are not a social reptile.
When they stack on top of each other, it's out of competition for a better basking area. I can't imagine how they can hold each other's feet without using their mouths (feet biting is a big no-no). You should take a picture, it sounds interesting. Following each other around is either out of boredom or it's chasing which is also a precursor to fighting. And the fighting over food (carrots in your case), typhoon getting fed up with hurricane's fluttering, and the 'space battle' are all signs of aggression that I've been referring to.
Aggression is not something that happens 100% of the time. It's usually something that goes unnoticed (or categorized as something else like affection) until you can't avoid it any longer, i.e. an injured, bleeding turtle. And that's the point I'm making, most turtles will live together in relative harmony, like you said, but it doesn't last in most cases. In most cases, turtles end up fighting. And you don't have to take my word for it, do a quick search on this forum and see how many instances of turtles injuring one another. It's sad how many turtles are getting needlessly injured.
The main problem with these little turtles that I see is people that look at them and project their own feelings onto their turtles. Turtles are not mentally capable of feeling the plethora of emotions that are assigned to them by humans. Yes, they feel fear and hunger and joy but not to the extent that I've read.
I don't mean any of this as an attack on you. But there are new keepers on this board everyday, some of which don't take the time to do the research on how to care for their animal because they feel that they can just take somebody's word as truth. And, obviously, it's fine for you to present the ways you care for your turtles but the newbies should know that your turtles 'happily cohabitating' is the exception, not the rule.
