Urgent Care :: Is my turtle lethargic?

[worldpeace]

How big is your turtle? 1.5 "
How long have you had it? 2 weeks

What is the water temperature? 75-77
Did you use a thermometer? yes
Are you using a water heater? yes
How much water is in there? full 10 gallon tank
Are you using a water conditioner? yes
Are you using any filtration? yes

What is the basking temperature? I'm not sure
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? It's a home-made above-the-tank basking area. Both the box on top and the platform leading to it are made of plastic and are covered with a material that they can't slip on.
Is there a UVB light? yes, UVB and UVA

What have you been trying to feed it? Red-Cal pellets
When was the last time your turtle ate? Yesterday, kind of. He just grabs at the food but doesn't really eat. Three days ago I saw him eat an entire pellet.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 10 gallon
Is the tank near a window? It's about a meter or two from the window.
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Yes. Plenty.

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes.
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes.

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? He spends all his time sleeping in the basking area. He swims around a little when he is the feeding container, for about 10 minutes and then goes back to sleep. He doesn't react to the light turning on and off or sometimes when he is sleeping and I pick him up.
I just looked at him now. He woke up by himself and went to dip his feet into the water on the lower platform. I'm sure that in a few minutes he'll be back under the basking light, sleeping.

From this symptoms, do you think he's lethargic? What can I do to help him?

P.S. I cannot know for sure what gender he is since he is too small. I am just assuming he is a boy.

[TheComputerGremlin]

From the size, there is no sense assuming or supposing anything about the gender, so just hold off and wait on that one. Besides, gender is irrelevant with sickness!

It sounds like he may be lethargic based on your description. Sometimes it takes a few weeks for a turtle to get used to their new environment, but he should be a bit skittish and not just sleeping all the time. It may be that your turtle has a respiratory infection, which is fairly common with baby turtles due to their initial living conditions with the breeders.

First, if you have multiple turtles, you want to remove the healthy ones to another tank. They will be okay for a few days without the whole basking setup, just make sure their water stays warm. Next, bump up the water temp to around 80. This will stimulate his immune system to work a bit better. You want to make sure he's eating, even if you have to feed him human tuna. I recommend the tuna that comes in the pouch as it holds it's shape in the water, rather than the tuna in a can which kind of just makes a mess. Lastly, you probably want to see if there is a herp vet that can treat him. Many vets won't treat turtles under 2-3", so you may not find anyone to help you, but you can at least see if they can look at him and see if he does have an RI. RIs are frequently fatal if not treated with antibiotics, but it's hard to dose such a small turtle. But some people have found vets that will, so at least try. RIs respond very well to antibiotics if given soon enough.

The other option instead of a vet is to watch him for a few days and see if the food and warm water starts to heal him. Sometimes a vet is too expensive, and they do sometimes get better without a vet.

[worldpeace]

I know he is to small to know the gender. But I named him George for a boy, so until proven otherwise he is a boy.

i tried tuna last week and he was just smelling it, didn't eat any of it. I will try tuna again later in today. It seems that he ate a little this morning. He made a big mess from the pellets I gave him so I can't tell for sure how much he ate.

Is the water to deep? Could that be a reason why he is not swimming?

I'm going to increase the temperature a little and try tuna again. I'll watch him for the next few days and I'll post any changes.

[steve]

He already sounds weak, so the priority should be getting him to eat. I'd pick up some live prey -- small minnows or guppies and hold them in front of him. Let them get his attention or maybe injure one of the fish and let him "catch" it.

The amount of activity in the room is probably making it difficult for him to adjust as this is a stressful period for him.

[worldpeace]

He started to eat a little. He also wakes up on his own about 2 or 3 times a day and moves around in the basing area. I wouldn't say this is a huge improvement, but compared to a week ago he looks more alive.

I noticed that he swims tilted more to one side. It's one of the symptoms of RI, right? I contacted a few vets, but no success so far. Can I do anything else for him besides increasing the water temp (which I did) and try to make him eat? I read that RI can be treated with vitamin injections. Can I give him some supplements at home if I can't find a vet that will take him?

[TheComputerGremlin]

A respiratory infection is caused by a bacteria usually, so an antibiotic shot is really the only actual way to help. Any type of shot or dosing for such a small turtle, though, is dangerous, which is why many vets won't treat them. I don't think vitamins will hurt, but they are hard to get into a turtle because it has to be consumed. There are some things to try, though.

First, cuttlebone is found in the bird section of the pet store. It's calcium, and it's necessary for your turtle throughout his life. I don't think it will help with the illness, but you can get some to give. Look at the sticky about removing the backing in the food/nutrition thread. Next, they have gut-loaded crickets. I have the freeze-dried ones, but you can feed live as well. They are fed extra vitamins and minerals for reptiles. It may also entice feeding! Also, they make different supplements for reptiles in the feeding section, I think there is often a vitamin/mineral powder you can add to things. The obvious catch is that it has to be consumed and as soon as you put it in the water, a lot washes off. But it's one of the only options available. Lastly, you can buy this liquid called Pedialyte, it's a baby drink I think, and dilute it by 50% in water and set your turtle in it for a few minutes. It is kind of like a vitamin/mineral supplement and while they are in it, they can drink the liquid to help them get better.

[steve]

It could be he's lost weight and can't fully swim properly. Have you tried the live prey yet?

[worldpeace]

Isn't he too small to be able to catch and eat fish, even if they are small? I tried to give him smelly foods like tuna and he only nibbled on it a little.

He seems to be swimming just fine now so I have one less thing to worry about.

I'll try to buy a guppy tomorrow and see what happens.

[steve]

As I said before... "I'd pick up some live prey -- small minnows or guppies and hold them in front of him. Let them get his attention or maybe injure one of the fish and let him "catch" it."

It's not a pleasant thing to do, but it can work.

[theartbook35]

Steve, that's a really nice idea you have there.

Maybe it;s the age of your turtle, but, I feed my turtles Rep-Cal too, and they go crazy for it. So, I was a little surprised to read that your turtle wasn't consuming the pellets. Being unwilling to take food makes me nervous, even if RES are known for being picky.

Maybe, along with the guppy, you can feed a couple of pellets at the same time as dried krill or shrimp to increase appetite. Slowly feed less and less of the shrimp or krill, and more of the pellets.

[worldpeace]

I took both my turtles to the vet today and she said the eyes looked swollen and gave them both some concentrated vitamin A orally and provided me with an ointment that I have to apply twice a day. She also gave me some special food and a syringe which I can use to force feed them because they haven't been eating for two days. The vet said it's because they might not see properly.

I am having trouble getting the mouth open. She said to pull on their legs slightly and tap on the beak so they'll get a little annoyed which causes them to open their mouth. Well I tried that (even though I'm not to comfortable pulling on their legs) with no result. Is there anything else I can try to make them open their mouth?

[TurtleLover_S&B]

I'm sorry to say but it sounds like your turtles have RI. They're lopsided swimming, the lethargicness, the swollen eyes....Poor babies. Anyway, you might want to take a food pellet and soak it in tuna juice. I have never tried it, but the smell of the tuna is suppose to intice them. Then put it near their mouth and maybe they'll open it, to try and eat it, but don't let them eat it. Try to get them to keep it open. If that doesn't work to get it open, I don't know what will. Hope it works!

[worldpeace]

I thought so too but the vet seemed to be of a different opinion. She said the only problem was with their eyes. I told her about the lopsided swimming and the bubbles coming out of their mouth when they go into the water, but... . I hope I'm wrong and it really isn't RI.

I finally got them to open their mouths a little but couldn't really get food it because it was only opened a little each time. I'll continue trying tomorrow and maybe I will get them to swallow a bit. They've gone a pretty long time without food and I am getting desperate.

[TurtleLover_S&B]

Well, hopefully they'll open their mouth more, so you can get some in. Now, your vet, is it a herp vet, or just a general vet?
And I don't mean to be rude, and I'm definitely not a vet, but I'm 99% sure your turtle has a RI. All the symptoms point to it.

[worldpeace]

I think she's a herp vet as well as a general. That's what the receptionist told me. But there were a few things she said that make me think otherwise. She was telling me that turtles don't need to be in water to swallow food.

I got one of the turtles to swallow a little more so I'm happy with the improvement. I'm still trying to "convince" the other one.

Thanks for all the help.