Urgent Care :: sick red bellied slider 3 vets can't help?

[Gumbalina]

Hi all, I hope somone out there can help.
In April, our 16 y/o female, pond housed red bellied slider was attacked by our dog while attempting to dig and lay eggs. The shell damage was not severe and there was no visible body damage.

She was separated and given amikacin injections and ointment applications as prescribed by the vet. She didn't bask or eat for several weeks, we put her back into the pond, then she basked a lot, now doesn't bask at all and acts like her eyes are bothering her (she wipes at them and keeps them closed). (she did dig a hole and layed no eggs as she's done before) Got a second opinion and that vet was not that excited and basically said to be patient.
I did finally get her to eat but only sinking algae-eater fish food, the world's most expensive turtle food and weighted-down romaine.


3rd vet over 3 visits - dewormed, xrays, blood work another round of antibiotics, a vit. a injection and again, I get, "be patient".

But I am worried! What's with her eyes? how can this all be related to the attack? is it? has anyone ever gone through something similar? I've had her since she was a hatchling and I know she's not right but none of the vets are worried about her like I am.

help?

[TheComputerGremlin]

Have you been seeing herp vets, not just regular vets? The eye itching sounds like either a small reaction to the various medicines or something in your water. Has your pond recently had different water added to it, even rain water? It's always possible a bit of acid rain ended up in the pond and is irritating her eyes.

I don't want to sound like your vets and say be patient, but it's your only option at this point. Sure, keep a close eye on her and if she's not making an improvement in a few weeks, I guess back to the vet. But let the meds take effect.

By the way, when they did X-rays, did they find eggs still in her? If she dug a hole and was attacked, she may be keeping the eggs inside her and if one bursts, she could become infected.

[Gumbalina]

Thanks for the reply!
The water is pretty much the same and we have 2 RES as well with no symptoms. I use Algae Fix but always have from time to time.
There were no eggs in her on xray.
And yes, all the vets have been exotics vets.

[Selera]

I'm no expert but could her actions be a reaction to the stress of the situation? If so try to make sure your dog can't get to the pond again then just wait like the vets say. If her actions hasn't changed or she obviously gets worse then worry.

[Gumbalina]

I'm sure stress has a lot to do with it. I know I'd be stressed after an attack like that.
what can I do? We theorized that fear of the dogs may be keeping her from feeding at the surface so we've been putting the dogs away for feeding time. We think she was stressed being separated so we put her into the pond again.
I know they are not brilliant creatures, but can they just plain get depressed?
Is there turtle Prozac?

[megcornell]

I don't think turtles get depressed in the same sense that humans do. But, with a lot of changes and stressful situations a turtle can become fearful and less active, effectively depressing their lifestyle.
Other than the eye irritation are there any other symptoms? And for the eyes have you been feeding her vit a loaded foods or administering eye drops?

[Gumbalina]

She wipes at her eyes, there are small spots of cloudiness on the corneas of both eyes, one eye appears slightly swollen and she keeps both eyes closed a lot.

She eats a little bit, but only sinking things placed in her path and she is easily distracted away from eating. She used to be a voracious eater.
She doesn't bask at all - haven't seen her bask in a month or more even though it's warm and sunny out.

She hides in a planted area in the shallow water almost all the time - not like her at all - she used to "beg" for treats like basil and figs and stare at us when it's feeding time.

She swims fine - balanced, no discharges other than clear leakage from eyes, decent weight though she has lost a couple hundred grams (she's quite big- in the neighborhood of 7 lbs) No other symptoms.

I haven't tried eye drops yet, but will try them today - couldn't hurt other than more handling stress.

She had a Vit A shot. I don't know what foods would be vit A loaded other than carrots which she will not eat. she has eaten a fig or two over the last week and she does eat the romaine and some algae pellets. I don't know how much Vit A these have.

What Vit A loaded foods are there that are super yummy for turtles and preferably sink?

[Gumbalina]

OMG sorry just noticed the correct format - thought the rules were v. similar to other forums (I belong to a cat forum, too)

How big is your turtle? about 7 lbs
How long have you had it? 16 years, since a hatchling

What is the water temperature? ambient, outside
Did you use a thermometer? no
Are you using a water heater? no
How much water is in there? 5000 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? yes
Are you using any filtration? yes, pressurized biofilter and UV clarifier

What is the basking temperature? ambient
Is there a basking light? the sun
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes, an island and a sloping beach
What kind is it or what is it made out of? concrete
Is there a UVB light? the sun?

What have you been trying to feed it? reptomin, romaine, figs, turtle treats, sinking algae and fish food
When was the last time your turtle ate? yesterday

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 5000 gallons, about 10 by 15 feet
Is the tank near a window? it's outside
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? the backyard has dogs and people in it, but not all day long. Birds visit often

Have you read the Basic Care section? I have kept turtles for 16 years so I skipped it
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes.

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? none other than already described.

thank you!

[SpotsMama]

To me, I can imagine the behavior being a reaction to the traumatic attack in April. Turtles do seem to have long memories in some cases. Spot stays inside in an aquarium in the cool months, and outside in a pond when it's warm. When I first put him outside, he won't bask for quite a while - maybe a month. Eventually he gets completely confident and starts basking again like a champ. I think if he had a very frightening experience he would stay fearful for a long time.

If your girl didn't lay the eggs, and they aren't in her still, then where did they go? Did the vets offer any suggestions? It's kind of worrisome because of the infections that can result from retained eggs.

On her eyes, the Turtle Eye Drops by Zoo Med (available OTC at pet stores in the reptile section) are good. A number of things can cause eye irritation including vitamin A deficiency. Ironically, vitamin A overdose can also cause eye irritation. Did the eye irritation start before the vitamin A shot, or after? Unless it's been awhile (three or four weeks) since she had the vitamin a shot, I'd hold off on foods containing vitamin A. When there's been a decent amount of time, here are some things containing vitamin A:

Carrots
Sweet potato
Kale
Turnip Greens
Winter Squash
Red Bell Peppers

The all time favorite among many turtles is steamed sweet potato. Also, it sinks. My turtle is wild for it.

Many things can cause eye irritation, including sensitivity to medications, eye infection, injury, vitamin deficiency (or overdose), chemicals in the water, respiratory infection. I've read of turtles with eye infections being treated with antibiotic eye salves. You might ask your vet if he/she thinks something like this would be advisible if the OTC drops don't help.

Good luck. Please keep us posted. You must be quite attached to your girl if she's been with your for 16 years.

[Gumbalina]

Thanks for the reassurance that the trauma may just take a while for her to get over. Even though I've had turtles for a long time they have always been very healthy and I haven't had to deal with many health problems.

The eye issues started before the vit A shot and that's why it was given.

As for her eggs - there just weren't any. she did this whole procedure last year where she wandered around the yard, sniffing for just the right spot, dug, burried and there were no eggs in the hole. xrays then showed no eggs inside either. I guess it's the equivalent of a false pregnancy?

thanks for the recommendation of sweet potato! I would never have thought of that!

I'm going to star tthe OTC drops today and see how that goes.

You're right - I am very attached to her She's been with me for a long time and I raised her and her "sister" (a pastel res) from such tiny things when everyone said they didn't have much of a chance since they were so little.

[littlecakes]

Gumbalina,
If you want to try some Ectotherm Aquatic Turtle Yummies, which is food that sinks, if you PM me your mailing address, I'd be happy to share some with you to see if your turtle would eat it. Then you won't have to buy a whole pack just to test it.
Here is a link so you can see the ingredients etc.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11326

It's been a life saver for me for my turtle that won't eat anything that floats.

Also, I know you said your turtle won't eat carrots but have you tried steaming them first and giving her med-large chunks? They will sink and I found my turtle will eat them steamed but not fresh.
All the best,
Hanna

[Gumbalina]

thanks littlecakes! what a great offer!
She does eat the turtle yummies if I cut them up for her - That was actually one of the first foods she would eat when she did start eating again.
they are just so expensive for a big gal and her friends. What she doesn't eat immediately the other 2 swoop in and devour. I could easily feed out a whole pack in one sitting to all 3!

I don't remember if I cooked the carrots when I offered them to her - it was years ago that I did, I think I may have shaved off a thin strip. She sniffed it, took a nibble and spit it out like it was poison and swam away!

Why doesn't yur turtle eat anything that floats?

[littlecakes]

I have no idea why she won't eat things that float. She is a rescue that my husband and I took in in May.
Yes, Turtle Yummies are expensive for what they are. I was excited to find them though because I had been making similar stuff myself for her to eat so at least I don't have to do it myself now. Our rescue is large too. Her shell is about 10".
Our turtle didn't eat raw shavings of carrots either but the steamed she seems to enjoy........maybe you can try and see.
Good luck!

[TheComputerGremlin]

Gumbalina, you could try isolating the other turtles, i.e. remove them from the pond, and let her eat as much as she needs, then put them back in. Kind of the opposite of a feeding tank, since you don't want to upset her further, but she needs as much as she can eat to start feeling better.

[Gumbalina]

I hadn't thought of taking the other turtles out - that would be a good idea - the other big gal could skip a meal or two anyway. I have been throwing food at the other two away from her so they would leave her alone/be distracted with their own food.

I tried the eye drops yesterday and either she's having a good day or those eye drops are a miracle because she ate quite a bit today- like 3 or 4 whole figs! I'll keep up with the drops for a week as the bottle says to do.

(by the way, we have a couple of fig trees in the yard, that's why the turtles get to eat them so much in the summer - and they do love them)