Urgent Care :: What could this be? white stuff grows on plastron scute

[RESCHIU]

recently(about 2 weeks ago), I started noticing my turtle's plastron has white things grows on it, it almost look like when the old plastron scute almost sheds off and there's airbubble in there, however, that's what I thought at first, but the area seems to spread and the scute look like it's still intact(has no sign of shedding), it's very visible especially in the water, but not very visible when I take her outside of the tank, it grows from the edge of the scute line towards the center, it's not soft or anything

I have all the light equipment and filtration, water degree used to be 78, but turn back to 70 recently, she eats and poop and do everything just fine, very active

[SpotsMama]

Can you post a picture of the plastron when it's dry? That would be most helpful.

[marisa]

When you say it seems to spread, do you mean if you push on it, the area seems to move? If so, it sounds like air is trapped under the scute. I'm not quite sure of the white things you wrote about...Can you post a pic of the shell dry? Since you say it's really visible in the water, a pic of the shell when your turtle is in the water might also be good to see.

[RESCHIU]

Hi, here are some pictures taken under the water, I'm sure it's not air bubbles....

http://www.fx.clemson.edu/~ychiu/turtle/white.JPG
http://www.fx.clemson.edu/~ychiu/turtle/white2.JPG
http://www.fx.clemson.edu/~ychiu/turtle/white3.JPG

the dark area(around the 4th scute) was where the last bacterial infection at and was cured

[marisa]

You're right---it's not air bubbles. Is this at all similar to what your RES had before?

The white looks like it will come off on the top two scutes, but looks imbedded on the others. Can you get some Nolvasan (chlorohexidine) and start cleaning the areas with it?

How often is the water changed? What kind of basking area does your RES bask on?

[RESCHIU]

I usually kept my water pretty clean, the water's never cloudy, always clear, I also change new carbon once every month, and about one time per week water change(either by adding new water or 25% of the water), I always use purify water from wal-mart (since las vegas's water has awfully high calcium anc chemical), she has a basking area, made of clear acrilic and green rubber pad?(it's quite popular basking pad)
however, I used to have minor algae problem from using UVB bulb, do you think that might have make it worse?
I'm suspecting that bacteria might come back and hit her again, vet told me that infection is one of the top 5 bacterial infection among turtles, the name is something like "citrobacter freundii" and "stenotrophomonas maltophilia", my poor baby one thing i'm worry about now is the new vet in las vegas I went last time told me if I want to do a scute culture, she may have to "cut up" a piece from her plastron, I just don't think that's right, my last vet was able to detect the bacteria by getting one of her sheded scute
I have one of her shedded scute kept in refrige(w/water) for about about 2 weeks, do you think it's still usable?
and where can I obtain Nolvasan from? does betadine works?

I think it does look like what my RES had before, however, last time when I know there is something really wrong, it looks much worse than that and had bad odor, I think this might be the early stage of the infection, there's no odor yet, so I want to treat it ASAP, my poor RES already lose 1/3 of her plastron from last time, she was very lucky to get cured

[steve]

That looks a little like the fungal/yeast infection that I encountered. Without looking a pic of it dry, it's hard to say. I've seen 2 different types... one that spreads extremely quickly, the other builds up and thickens at a single point.

Bacteria and fungus are very opportunistic around water habitats. Fungus is usually odorless and is best treated with Silver sulfadiazine, but it's a pain to deal with on the plastron. It's available via prescription (or some places online).

[SpotsMama]

The plastron looks a lot like my turtle's plastron when he was having shell problems. Here's a link where you can see pictures and read some of how it was finally cured. He's doing well today. I think Nolvasan is very good but I think silver sulfadiazine is a miracle drug for this sort of shell problem. Nolvasan is gentler to living tissue than betadine so in some cases injuries heal faster with Nolvasan (chlorhexadine or Hibiclense). By the way, a medical person was able to get a culture from a scute Spot had shed and that I had stored for several weeks in water in the refrigerator that indicated a yeast (which is a type of fungus) infection.

http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0

[marisa]

RESCHIU, weren't you using some sort of cream from the vet when your turtle had problems before? Perhaps the infection never fully went away and needs to be treated again. Regardless of what you get from the vet, it would also be good to get some Nolvasan to clean the areas with. Ask the vet about the scute you've been keeping (I don't know if two weeks is too long for it to be used to get a culture.)

About the water and basking area---by purified water do you mean distilled water? If so, it's not good to use distilled water. The basking area is the one by Kordon? Does your turtle's plastron dry off fully when she basks on it? I doubt that a little algae in the tank would cause the problem.

[Bernie]

Spotsmama: Your pics on your link look like a little more severe version of what my RES Burgundy has. I didn't think it was anything but preparing to shed until I read this. My question is this: Will sulfa dip bought at the store work? I am in the process of upgrading her tank and am strapped for cash.

Here's some info about her:
-Female, 6.5", had for two years, estimated three years old
-basks several hours a day, swims mostly in the evenings
-shell has peely, waxy look to it
-normal appetite (begs, too)
-diet: pellets, trying to get her to eat veggies
-water temp: 74-76 degrees

[marisa]

I'd skip the sulfa dip, its effectiveness is debatable. Put your money into upgrading the tank and equipment.

How often do you change the water? Does your turtle have both a heat light and UVB light? If your turtle has a UVB light, when was it changed last?

[steve]

Bernie, the pics in that post are the infection near the end of the cycle. It will get worse until it's solid white. When this happened to my turtle, it produced a couple of other problems. The first was retained scutes... they just would not come off normally. That lead to a bacterial infection underneath those layers and at the seams (from trapped water, dirt, etc). And since it was slowly shedding, the fungus started on the new scutes underneath.

Silver sulfadiazine works extremely well, especially when used as early as possible. It won't work on areas where a scute layer is completely white and thick, but it will help the new scute underneath.

[Bernie]

Marisa--I change the water about 50% on a weekly basis, 100% on a monthly basis. She's got a heat-UVB light that I changed about four months ago. Right now there is no question she needs to get into a better tank. I change the water so much because the filter is maxed out. I'm moving her into a 75 gallon with a Rena XP3 and water heater for up to 90 gallons. Just waiting for it to arrive in the mail.

The problem has been going on longer, some of her scutes just haven't come off in the last year and look that dull light brown color. While others have shed or I have helped peel while getting algae off of her shell.

I will try to post some pics tonight.

[SpotsMama]

The number one thing to cure a condition like Spot's is correcting the habitat. She'll need clean water, healthy diet and, above all, lots and lots of basking under good UVB light. The correlation between improvement in Spot's condition and the good light was striking. He was finally able to shed the built up scutes. Spot shed when he got to bask outdoors in natural sunlight and when he basked under a T Rex 100 watt MVB flood light. Last summer we had a very unusual amount of rainy, cloudy weather in Texas so his shell didn't do as well outdoors as it did the year before when it was dry and sunny.

Something else to help with shedding is a diet containing foods rich in vitamin E. Here are some foods containing vitamin E:

Tomato
Sweet potato
Turnip greens
Blueberries
Apple skin

Once you can get to the infection, like Steve said silver sulfadiazine is the best thing out there for curing it.

[marisa]

By heat-UVB light, do you mean a mercury vapor light or are you talking about 2 separate lights?