Feeding and Nutrition

Does anybody know anything about Rep-Cal's Herptivite powder? It claims that it's the first to use beta-carotene instead of Vit. A, to avoid toxicity issues - because somehow the conversion of beta-carotene is 'regulated' (I guess by the organism) so that it doesn't get any more or less than it needs???

I'm not even sure how I ended up with this stuff - maybe after my female was recovering from the acute issue of the male tearing part of her neck off (they got their own separate tanks as a reward) and the unknown (to me until the vet pointed it out) issue that she (and he by inference) were vitamin deficient - mainly because I hadn't provided either of them with a basking area - literally - for about 6 years (they are 7" and 9") - so the female at least had shell rot and puffy eyes and aside from the risk of infection from the open wound which needed topical and injected antibiotics she also gave her a vitamin injection.

I think I went to a pet store to get feeder fish (which the vet also recommended once a month) I saw this vitamin powder and figured I could boost up the value of the Repto-Min sticks which I figured were just average, if even good enough...

So since then I wet a bunch of sticks and coat them in Herptivite and give both turtles their food like that every day.

Of course it's completely unscientific because I don't know how much I'm giving them of anything and I don't know what they actually need or would thrive on.

So I'm gambling - but maybe it's a good thing?

Any help appreciated.

Matthew Perertz

Did you get them a basking area, I think I missed that in that post; with proper UVA and UVB lighting? Proper lighting will allow them to manufacture all the Vitamin D and Vitamin A that they need from what they get in their diet. Beta-carotene is already in their diet. It is in everything, carrots have a lot, shrimp have a lot (if you include the shells), it is a primary component of Keratin.

I'm not saying that adding beta-carotene to the diet is harmful, but in order for the turtle to be able to take advatage of it, it needs high intensity UVA/B radiation hitting its skin and shell.

According to their site, you need to use this with Rep Cal

"We ask that you mix Rep-Cal with our vitamin supplement Herptivite. If we premixed the products, the "beadlets" of beta carotene in Herptivite may possibly be damaged during manufacturing by the calcium in Rep-Cal. Mix with vegetables, fruits, and pastes approximately 1/2 tablespoon Rep-Cal with 1/2 tablespoon Herptivite per pound of food."

I would see if you can exchange it for phosphorus-free Rep-Cal and offer a varied diet.

Their verbiage is vague - because Rep-Cal is the name of the company and I don't see a product called Rep-Cal without something else in it.
Anyway, all I see is that they would be worried that the beta carotene in the Herptivite would get damaged if they pre-mixed it with whatever they're calling Rep-Cal (by the calcium in this Rep-Cal). So they seem to be saying that Herptivite by itself is fine as far as beta carotene goes - because it has not been damaged by premixing and by calcium - the inference I get is that Herptivite is good but potentially lacking in certain things (like calcium). But my goal (not sure why this was my goal) was to give a boost to the Vit. A content of their diet - and this appeared to do that in a non-toxic manner using beta-carotene that gets converted in a regulated way to Vit A as needed....

But still, I don't know whether I'm using it right - because just rolling their sticks around in it every day could be way too much... or way too little.

I bought this months and months ago - so there's no returning or exchanging.

Also- - I guess what I want to know - is if turtle keepers normally DO bother with things like vitamin supplements like this - or they don't bother - or what the better part of wisdom is.

Aside from occasional calcium supplements, I'm not sure of anyone using vitamin supplements.

So maybe I should stop - because nobody (ie - the pet shop owner) had any clue or knowledge about Turtles for sure - and this kind of vitamin supplement in particular.

Feed lots of leafy greens, different varieties, daily, the amount of pellets that would fit in the turtles head if empty every 2 - 3 days. Once a month feeder fish is fine. Slivers of carrots or steamed sweet potato occasionally and a couple of small (so there's no chocking) chunks of cuttle bone once or twice a week. That should provide the proper amount of nutrition along with the proper lighting. Good Luck!

The reason I'm NOT going to follow your advice is that it's exactly what I tried to explain above. I can't have my turtles creating another need for a specialized meal in our household. I'm not a fanatic and I'm never going to feed them all kinds of leafy greens - because WE don't even HAVE 'all kinds of leafy greens" EVER. I have been feeding them exclusively Repto-Min sticks for pretty much 7 or 8 YEARS now - every single day a portion at least as much as you say. And nothing else. Now, I've gone out of my way with my time and money to create the basking areas they never had - and that will have to be enough without getting into some gourmet turtle diet I have to actually shop for separate from what we eat in our house. Everyone has some different bizarre diet they uphold as the be all and end all - I'm not trying to be harsh - but it's true. The vet says one thing, the woman on Kingsnake.com forums says another, you say another, and there really is little cross-over. People say DO feed them feeder fish, other people say feeder fish are dangerous carriers of potential diseases. And that the turtles can't possibly need that much animal protein at their sizes (6" and 8" conservatively). How they have lived this long and grown that big from 50 cent Chinatown turtles with my reckless keeping should be beyond you - given what you say.

I'm really not trying to be harsh at all- - in fact I TRY my BEST to figure out what the consensus is - but there really isn't one in the significant time I've spent on this and the other forum (on Kingsnake's turtle or red-eared slider forum). There seem to be as many ways and means of keeping these turtles as there are stars in the skies. Cuttle bone? That's a brand new one for me at least. My turtles wouldn't even LOOK at leafy greens, whereas they ate up the apple I put in. But what good is this "salad guesswork" - it's anyone's guess as to what really is important as far as I can tell, aside from clean water and a basking area with the proper amount of heat and UVB light. Beyond that? You can't begin to get a consensus. You say give them steamed sweat potato... are you kidding? I'm about to go out and buy and steam sweat potatoes for my turtles? WHY?

It would be nice if there were a definitive, expert guide on feeding RES. But I get to the point where my vet giggles at what I hear on these forums (and she's actually medically trained) and then 'experts' on the forums laugh at my vet's alleged ignorance because she's not a specialist.

I don't know the answer. I don't have a single clue. My larger female turtle will gobble up 12 medium sized feeder fish in the time it takes me to take the recycling out to the curb... whereas my male will have six in his tank and two weeks later there are still 2 left. The greens make no sense because the turtles ignore them. The carrots and apples we generally have around so I can do that. But cuttle bone? Yet another thing I have to order or pay for from an online or brick and mortar merchant? There would have to be a HUGELY important reason to get this item and it would have to have no, 'more realistic' substitute. Are the getting calcium from it? Are the and have they been (for so many years) calcium deficient? Is cuttle bone what EVERYBODY out there is recommending or using but never told me? What about the woman who said I should give them bits of meat? Personally I think it sounds like a rotten idea (no pun intended)....

So this is maybe why I thought it would be easiest to give them a simplified, more targeted, more 'controlled' dosage of Herptivite at least - because I know they're getting particular, specific nutrients in a calculated manner.

Frankly, I think it's all pretty much guesswork - until I meet an authority on feeding RES of my specific size - then I still have no idea what to really give them. That's just my humble opinion. And I don't have endless amounts of time to continue to delve into this. For better or for worse, I have MUCH, MUCH higher priorities to deal with in my life right now. I know that some of you are die-hard, hardcore, fanatical hobbiests - and respect that. I used to be that way about photography when it came to the minutia of film cameras, processing, printing, etc. But I don't have time for that either right now. Thankfully, I have my Leica and my refurbished medium format folding camera, and I'm happy. But I have two teenagers and I've been out of work for over 3 years - I can't spend any more time and money being any more OCD about my turtles. It's already cost probably well over $500 just to split them up into separate tanks. I'm really getting towards the end of my tolerance for them taking up all of my time. Even now I have to do partial water changes (after my new test kit comes that I will have to take TIME to learn how to use), change the carbon, add purigen, and put in the new parts for the ailing Fluval 405 I got, and put in the new lights for the larger tank that it still doesn't have (basking and UVB), and so on and so on.

I'm this close to just giving up and giving it all away. You can't PLAY with these animals - we're from mutually alien worlds. It has just become a perfectionist's hobby as far as I'm concerned. My dog - with whom you CAN have a relationship, requires 1000 times less maintenance than these turtles.

It's all very annoying and expensive at this point - I couldn't afford it then and I certainly can't afford what I've had to spend regardless of the fact that I can't afford it now. It's like I'm in so deep there's no way out. I wish I were a more careless, neglectful person, with less regard for life-forms on earth. Because I would have gotten rid of them long ago. Now it's like there's no solution but to go the other way and I'm learning that there is no bottom to the rabbit hole.

It's pretty easy to hit the store once a week and pick up some lettuce. Don't let it overwhelm you! I am sorry your turtles don't bring you any joy, I have found turtle keeping to be a very rewarding hobby.

It's not that they don't bring me ANY joy - they are sort of an outlet for my OCD nature IF I let them become the focus of my attention. It's just that for many years I didn't, until this recent incident a couple of months ago when the male attacked and seriously wounded the female. It's just that they cost us a lot of money at a time when we really couldn't afford it and that upped the frustration level around here. And also - I think that they are really just for occasional observation - once in a while when everything is running right I can just sit and watch them. I have to admit though, that it WAS more interesting when there were TWO in the same tank. Now that they are separated, it's kind of boring most of the time to just sit and watch one turtle swim back and forth and back and forth and back and forth - or bask. They do not even remotely interact with humans. Maybe mine are unusual - but they would rather snap your finger off than deal with you even touching them. I never considered whether I 'created' that by not handling them a lot when young? But they're not young anymore, regardless, and I don't think that even if this species 'could' have been taught to be interactive pets, there is anything I can do about it now. But my suspicion (without research) is that they are not an interactive species of type of pet.

What can you do - I was venting a lot above and I'm sorry. I will just stick to the course and keep working on perfecting what I can. As for shopping for them? It ain't happening. And I don't know what cuttle bone is - and didn't hear back what it is.

I'm happy to give them what lettuce we have - maybe the bits I created were too small (they were one inch strips). And I can give them apples and carrots and some other stuff. It's probably the leafy greens that I'm NOT going to go out and buy just for the turtles... And shrimp? We can hardly afford to buy shrimp for ourselves as a treat! Unless someone meant some cheap frozen shrimp or something?

My turtle doesn't get shrimp or any steamed sweet potato. I have a fresh leaf of lettuce clipped to the side of the tank that I change out every morning. Cuttlebone is for calcium http://www.amazon.com/Living-World-Cutt ... 444&sr=8-1 My turtle shows no interest in cuttlebone, but it is cheap. You remove the hard backing and the turtle should take bites of it.

As for them not being interactive I guess it kind of depends on your turtle. My turtle swims up to the glass and when I'm watching him, and I get a kick out of watching him explore his underwater world I've created

Novros is a member on this forum with a really cool blog, her turtles are almost as interactive as dogs!! lol http://kamekroten.wordpress.com/

You are right you get a lot of information on different sites. You just have to sift through it and use common sense. Cuttlebone has been mentioned on every different turtle forum I've been on. I use information from each site, sift through it and see what makes sense. The larger turtle forums with actual turtle breeders on them use a diet similar to the one I've mentioned. Young sliders have a more carnivorous diet then turn to more vegetation as they get older. There haven't been a lot of in depth studies on turtle diets but there have been enough to notice the change in wild sliders diet when they age. When I go shopping for my family I just pick up a different green for the turtle each week. No special trip needed. There are many people that don't feed their turtles feeder fish for fear of parasites. I'm not one of them. I've fed my turtle platies from my own tank, earth worms from my own yard and snails. Heck he gets the occasional bug that goes to his basking light. i don't know why turtles change from a carnivorous diet to a vegetation diet as they get older. I think it has to do with the need for protein. Protein is needed for growth, when you get older you don't need to grow so they eat the easier to catch plants. Also most older turtles that were studied had no fish in their stomachs, mostly plants and snails. However you feed your turtles is up to you. i was just trying to advise on a healthy diet. People can survive on McDonalds, But.... We won't go there. Just remember there is quality of life and quantity of life. I don't mind the harshness. I like a good debate. We'll just have to agree to disagree on what is healthy for our turtles. Good Luck!

I wasn't really debating - I was just venting and being frustrated. I really don't know anything much.... and I usually look for a consensus in many areas of life where I'm surely not an expert and don't have time to become one... I was just exasperated with the time and cost recently.

As for the future, I will certainly try leafy greens and carrots. I guess you have to give them a certain amount of time and keep trying to introduce new foods- - I doubt I can expect immediate compliance... and I won't.

I don't know what cuttle bones are or where one gets them - or if I should even bother??? And what about the 'shrimp' issue - are people meaning those dried containers of shrimp or real shrimp from some frozen food bag? And what is the reasoning behind shrimp.

I explained cuttlebone in my last post, and put a link on there. I'd say just forget the shrimp.

I'm going to buy cuttlebone. Either in petsmart or Wal-Mart or something. Not worth ordering online and paying more shipping, unless I needed something else. SO - the good news is that the turtles love the carrots! Excellent!

Feeding and Nutrition :: I'm sprinkling Rep-Cal's Herptivite on Repto-Min food sticks

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