Habitat - Indoor :: Nitrite and Nitrate in danger zone

[Ashley]

Since the last partial water change (less than a week ago) our tank's nitrite and nitrate levels have been very high according to the test kit we have.
We did a 60% or more water change today and the levels are still just as high.
We checked to make sure the kit is reading ok by testing straight tap water and it's working fine.

Not sure what the problem could be.
The water is crystal clear, not cloudy one bit...no algae or scum either.
We rinsed the filter cartridges a week ago with cool water and did a partial water change, as we do every week.
The filters seem to be running fine, we feed Bowser in a separate tank, net out excess waste, etc.

She doesn't seem sick or lethargic at all, but this still concerns my boyfriend and I.
We want Bowser to be in the best environment possible!

Any suggestions?

[Kemul]

We rinsed the filter cartridges a week ago with cool water and did a partial water change, as we do every week.

That's the cause of your problem. By washing the filter thoroughly, the beneficial bacteria living in the filter doesn't
get the chance to populate the filtration system and process ammonia and nitrite. I'm not sure why nitrate is high at
this point though. You need to let your tank complete its nitrogen cycle by not washing the filter cartridges. Use as
much biomedia as possible. Do about 10% water change once a day for about two weeks. Net out debris as best as
you can, but don't stress over it. Hopefully, all that will make your water quality better.

[Marcus.85]

I think your filter is too small for the tank, or hasn't cycled properly.
What kind of filtration are you using? Is there any biomedia at all in the filter?

If you only had those sponges you washed, then the bacteria might have died, and the tiny amount of waste your turtle releases in the main tank are enough to keep the nitrites level high..

[Ashley]

We didn't have this problem before when washing the cartridges.
The two filters we have are the small TetraFauna Reptofilter and the Zoomed 318.
Seems like plenty of filtration for a 20gal tank that's only half full.
We really need to rinse them because they're getting clogged since Miss Bowser is shedding.
Shouldn't the good bacteria remain since we're only rinsing with cold water to remove the big particles?
As far as Bio Media goes, we don't use any that I know of.
Does it go in the filter?
The Zoomed 318 has a spot for charcoal...would it go there?

So will Bowser be ok in the tank while it's like this?
She seems fine, but we're very worried!

[Marcus.85]

We didn't have this problem before when washing the cartridges.
The two filters we have are the small TetraFauna Reptofilter and the Zoomed 318.
Seems like plenty of filtration for a 20gal tank that's only half full.
We really need to rinse them because they're getting clogged since Miss Bowser is shedding.
Shouldn't the good bacteria remain since we're only rinsing with cold water to remove the big particles?
As far as Bio Media goes, we don't use any that I know of.
Does it go in the filter?
The Zoomed 318 has a spot for charcoal...would it go there?

So will Bowser be ok in the tank while it's like this?
She seems fine, but we're very worried!

Ok, both filters are quite small and apparentely they do not contain bio-media (ceramic rings, bioballs and the like).
Therefore, the only good bacteria you had were in the sponges and the water itself, which both were changed/washed=lost.
Was the water you washed the cartridges with, de-chlorynated and/or treated with a conditioner? What about the one you put in the tank for the 60% change? Chloryne even in small quantities, might kill the bacteria..

As for the zoomed 318, yes I guess you could put some ceramic rings or similar in there and be careful with cleaning,washing, moving them around too much.

[Ashley]

The water we washed them with was straight from the tap, so it wasn't treated.
Same with the water we added back to the tank, but we added a conditioner immediately.

I just don't understand why we're having this problem this week, but not the weeks before.

[Marcus.85]

The water we washed them with was straight from the tap, so it wasn't treated.
Same with the water we added back to the tank, but we added a conditioner immediately.

I just don't understand why we're having this problem this week, but not the weeks before.

Well, straight tap water is what you should avoid most for cleaning a filter.. as it cointain Chlorine, a guaranteed bacteria-killer.
Nitrites (and also nitrates) don't come from nowhere, so the reason has to be a problem with the filters (you said tap water doesn't cointain any, right?).
What you should do is either:
-load the zoomed 318 with some ceramic rings and allow it to cycle
-get a (small-medium sized) canister

In the meantime do waterchanges a bit more frequently. Nitrates are harmless for turtles, but nitrites are slightly toxic.

[Ashley]

My boyfriend picked up a bottle of Amquel Plus today and after a few hours the Nitrates have gone down a little bit, but the Nitrites are still super high.
He also got a kit that tests for ammonia, and I'm happy to say that there's no problem with that.
Hopefully the Amquel helps...the bottle says use every 24hours until it gets better.

[Marcus.85]

My boyfriend picked up a bottle of Amquel Plus today and after a few hours the Nitrates have gone down a little bit, but the Nitrites are still super high.
He also got a kit that tests for ammonia, and I'm happy to say that there's no problem with that.
Hopefully the Amquel helps...the bottle says use every 24hours until it gets better.

I'm kinda tired of saying the same things over and over, but that product won't solve the problem, since you do not have any biological filtration. Can someone please back me up on this?

[papoopeepoo]

My boyfriend picked up a bottle of Amquel Plus today and after a few hours the Nitrates have gone down a little bit, but the Nitrites are still super high.
He also got a kit that tests for ammonia, and I'm happy to say that there's no problem with that.
Hopefully the Amquel helps...the bottle says use every 24hours until it gets better.

I'm kinda tired of saying the same things over and over, but that product won't solve the problem, since you do not have any biological filtration. Can someone please back me up on this?

This is true. Beneficial bacteria live on all surfaces in your tank setup: Decor, substrate (sand, if you have it), glass, and especially in the filter media specifically designed to harbor these bacteria. But, the other areas in your tank besides the biological media are no match for a turtle's bio-load, so the presence of this media is imperative for a tank to fully cycle. Biological additives will only give a jump-start to your cycle. For example, if you do have the correct media in a large enough filter, the cycle will take 1 week to cycle as opposed to 4-6.

The cycle somewhat goes in this order when healthy:
1. Food/Waste broken down to ->
2. Ammonia (extremely dangerous) converted by bacteria to ->
3. Nitrite -> (still highly toxic) converted by other bacteria to ->
4. Nitrate -> (not so toxic)

Nitrates can be converted to nitrogen gas by plants, but most people just do water changes to remove them.

[TurtleKeeper48]

I'll back you up Marcus. ..and I'm the guy that believes in using activated carbon in my set ups (BTW, OP - it's no charcoal adn marcus is right - you need bio media more than you need this)

I completely agree that the most important is the mechanical and biological filtration... you gotta have those in place!

I hate to say it - but I think the OP really needs a tank and filter upgrade.

Did I read that right - it's 10 gallons of water? NO bio filtration? I don't know if you can really get 10 gallons to cycle with any kind of bio load. You're going to have problems no matter what you do.

How big is the turtle?

[Ashley]

We got some media for the filters, plus a solution to jump-start the biological process.
Getting a bigger tank is not an option at the moment...we've already spent hundreds on this setup.
A 55 gal is something we're looking at for the future.

Our turtle seems very happy with the size of the tank and the amount of water.

What I don't understand is why the levels are high *now* when they weren't a week ago, two weeks ago, and even three weeks ago, when we've been doing the same things week after week.

Oh well...at least we have some filter media to hold onto the bacteria and we will be careful to wash cartridges in treated water only...possibly even adding that water back to the tank but netting out any particles.

The water is crystal clear, too, so you wouldn't know there's a problem without the test kit.

[Ashley]

Update:
The levels weren't any better this morning (not surprised, though) so we did a 100% water change and changed the cartridges in the filters since it's been long enough. We made sure to rinse filters themselves with treated water and soak new cartridges in the same water that was rinsed off to get as much good bacteria on them as possible.
It turns out that BOTH filters have carbon, and we now have added extra media (balls) to the bigger one.
The rock/cave in her tank must have lots of good bacteria, so that's also a bonus.
We also added Nutrafin Cycle directly to the filters as recommended by a guy at the pet store.
Hopefully that will jump start the process.

The levels in the water are good so far...keeping my fingers crossed.

My boyfriend and I did some budgeting and hopefully we can get that 55gal as soon as next month.
Going to be tight, but we love our turtle and want the best for her.

Thanks for all the advice...we're new to this.
Even though we've been reading up on turtle care as much as possible, we still have a lot to learn.

[papoopeepoo]

You should avoid 100% water changes as much as possible. Regardless of how careful you are, a lot of bacteria is going to be lost. It doesn't help that the filter media has been cleaned, either. Your best bet is 50% PWC (partial water changes) or less until the tank has cycled.

Carbon is not often used by turtle keepers. The life of the carbon is usually about a day, or even a few hours, and then needs to be changed before it starts releasing the absorbed chemicals back into the water. It just makes filter maintenance a more anoying and more common task.

There is going to be a burst of first ammonia, then nitrites and finally nitrates. At these points those chemicals will be unusually high, but you must have patience for them to lower and finally become nitrate. Don't rush the process, it wasn't exactly meant to happen over night.

[Ashley]

Thanks for the advice!
I just checked the levels....ammonia is low, nitrates are low but not as low as yesterday, and nitrites are creeping back up but still not dangerous.
We're really just trying to make do with what we have until we can get the bigger tank next month.
Once we get the bigger tank we're also going to invest in a nice filter.
Any suggestions for a filter for a 55gal?
I hear that fluval is a good brand....also, we already have some media that can go in a fluval.