Habitat - Indoor :: Advice - will this work?

[JesB]

Hello everyone - I'm new and haven't kept turtles since I was in middle school, but I was sort of unexpectedly thrown back into it today, and I'm finding I don't remember as much about it as I'd like. I'm looking for any advice on the setup any of you might have to offer!

My little sister gave us two small turtles today as a house warming gift (though one of them might be going back to her soon; both with approx. 4 in. long shells - right at the border line for "too small for deep water" according to my online research :\ ). She thought a turtle would make a nice present since she knew I hadn't got my fish tank set up yet in our new apartment, and thought I'd like to try something new. Since this was pretty unplanned for, I doubt what I have going is exactly ideal, but I'd like to make it work if possible, with a little help from you experts.

Below is an image of the set up...I had to get a bit creative with it since it's a trickle down filter system. The tank itself is 65 gallons with a 45 gallon sump housing a 500 gal/hr pond pump (currently turned down to probably around 350 gal/hr), heater, and bioballs filtering system. I know trickle down systems aren't ideal for turtles, but I've got to work with what I've got for the moment...it made an extremely nice fish tank...being unable to lower the water level in the system wasn't exactly an issue with fish!

Anyway, does anyone have any other suggestions for us to make this work any better for our new pets?

http://www.artisticentropy.com/images/turtle.jpg

Please excuse the photo quality - haven't found/unpacked all the cords to my camera yet, so my roommate took it with her phone.

There's about 1.5 to 2 inches clearance between the waterline and the 4 inch wide acrylic ledge, but the center of the tank is cut out save for a small ledge in the center (that the light and tank are resting on. They don't appear to have trouble breathing even in the area around the edges which has the ledge, though the little one likes to shoot up very quickly from the bottom on occasion, and I've seen him bump his nose once or twice.

The out of tank basking area is a converted old ten gallon fish tank I had laying around from which I removed the bottom pane of glass, and the light is a 75 watt UVA/UVB basking/heat lamp. Both turtles have demonstrated that they can climb out into the basking area.

I know this is far too small for two adult turtles, but my sister is likely to take one of them back when she gets a tank of her own - long before these grow up. She got the second one for herself, but is unable to accommodate it at the moment.

The sump has no substrate and due to the nature of trickle down filters, all floating waste will end up down there for easy cleanup. I intend to feed them outside of the tank in a separate container to help further with keeping up water quality.

As you can probably tell, I had to get kind of creative with this on the fly. I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting to mention, but please let me know if I'm doing anything horribly wrong or if you've got any suggestions for what I can do better with what I have to work with.

Thanks,
Jes

[gwennie]

Hey there ^^ Welcome back to turtle keeping!

I think you made really great use of the tank you have by providing an over the water basking area like you did. I would hope that your little turts don't climb out of the tank though - I've never had my water up that high yet, so I'm not sure what they're fully capable of - I'm sure another member here will spot any potential hazards.

The only thing I'd say you should do is remove the gravel if it's smaller than your turtles' heads, as they will probably try to eat it at some point, and this can result in a bowel blockage and be fatal to your turts.

Also, because you have such a deep water level, you might want to add some tall plants to your tank to give them some resting places until they get older and have better lung power. They tire easy when they're young and can't hold as much air in their little lungs, so they have to return to the surface more often than older turtles. When the water is so deep, they might have a bit of trouble getting to the surface in time.

Otherwise, I think your set up is really lovely.

Filter wise, I don't know much about sumps, as I have an external canister filter. It sounds like you have it set to the right power/water processing rate though.

[JesB]

Thank you! I'm a little apprehensive because I want to be a responsible turtle owner, but I'm re-enjoying it so far!

Thank you so much for the advice! I'll try and cover your concerns!

1. Climbing out of the tank - all the open areas on the tank are completely covered - the top of the tank is actually about a quarter think acrylic pane with two large cutouts to allow access to the aquarium each cut out is slightly smaller than your standard 10 gallon fish tank - there are ledges creating a "ceiling" of sorts that are about 4 inches wide all around the outside edges of the tank with 1.5 - 2 inches between the waterline and the acrylic. One of the cutouts is covered by the basking area, and the other is covered by an aquarium hood/lighting fixture. I'm fairly sure it's escape proof, but i'll keep careful watch on it, especially as they grown larger!

2. Gravel - this was my pre-existing fish tank gravel, but it's all rather large - it was the largest size the pet store sold at the time. Most of it has a diameter about the same as a dime or larger. Do you think this will be an issue? Currently, it is definitely larger than the turtle's heads.

3. Plants - excellent idea! I hadn't thought of that because I remember my childhood turtle digging up everything we tried to place in the water. I think I have some larger aquarium plants around somewhere - I'll get them situated. Hopefully the heavy gravel will be able to keep it down for a while. Currently they are spending a lot of time resting on the long ramp, on the outlet pipe from the sump, and hanging onto the ledges of the sump inlet/trickle system when they get tired. All of these are located at or near the waterline. Hopefully they'll be okay for now until I can figure out where I packed the aquarium plants!

Thanks so much for your helpful advice. It is very much appreciated.

[gwennie]

If the gravel is definitely larger than their heads, than it'll probably be fine for the time being, until they get larger. It's just that turtles can be a bit like toddlers and test everything in their tank at some point or another - if it can fit into their mouths, it's likely they'll accidentally eat it at some point.

I see you found another turtle forum I belong to and I also replied to you there ^^ Hope you don't mind

In regards to the plants, they can be real or fake - I wouldn't expect them to really stay put in any one place for long once they start growing, because turtles are awesome "re-arrangers" of things! They'll redecorate the tank as they see fit, including moving rocks and plants around, or digging up anything you'd like to see stay put.

If they're resting on the ramp, that's great until you can find other things for them to rest on I also think it's really awesome that you've already seen them up in the basking area. That's really good news too.

[BullDog]

Welcome! There's many people who end up getting turtle ownership thrust upon them, and I think you did quite an excellent job on short notice!

As Qwennie mentioned, you'll want to make sure all the gravel is larger than their heads. Turtles can and will eat gravel, and can become impacted and die.
Also, with that much gravel in there, you'll find a lot of waste gets trapped amongst the gravel. You may at some point want to switch it out for large river rocks, or even just a bare bottom tank.

On the lamp, (just to make sure) is it a mercury vapour bulb? There are a lot of bulbs sold as "full spectrum" or "basking bulbs", that don't actually produce any UVB. MVBs provide both heat and UV light, which is what you need.

One thing you didn't mention is a thermometer. It's very important to make sure your water and basking temps are good. If you do have an MVB, they can get quite hot, so you would want to make sure your basking temp isn't too warm.

Tall plastic plants or an underwater platform would also be a good addition for your turts to rest on.

[JesB]

Qwennie and BullDog - Thank you both for your excellent help and advice! I don't mind at all that you replied to me both places, Qwennie! I just decided to only respond in one place to keep it simpler. Thanks again!

I looked into purchasing sand for the tank instead of gravel (have to have something to hold down all of the aquarium plants I put back in there for the turtles to rest on!) but unfortunately everywhere around here seems to be sold out of it except Petsmart. Wal-mart informs me that sand is "seasonal" Hmm. I'd rather not pay the $30/small bag Petsmart wants for it's Aragonite. Ouch! Besides, Aragonite seems a bit like overkill. I'll keep looking though - may have to order it somewhere. I'm fairly sure the current gravel is large enough for the moment not to be too large of a danger - it IS very large gravel and there's not nearly as much in there as there appears to be, it was just all mounded up along the front when the picture was taken - I hadn't evened it out yet. Still - I promise to get rid of it asap.

As for the lighting/temperature - you're right BullDog, the packaging on the bulb I had purchased was decidedly misleading and it didn't give off UVB, so I purchased a 10.1 UVB bulb (something like that? Can't remember the name exactly at the moment, but I'd seen it recommended in a few places) and another clamp on lighting fixture today.

I have a thermometer in both the tank and inside the basking area. The water is running around 75F and the basking area is running about 87F

They're not eating particularly well yet, but both turtles spend a LOT of time basking - particularly the larger one who is shedding a good deal at the moment.

Does it seem like I've got the bases covered now? Any other suggestions? I'm all ears. thanks!

[BullDog]

Sounds like you've got it pretty much under control! The 10.0 bulb may be a little strong, just make sure it's at least 10" away from the basking area.

Have you checked hardware stores for sand? I agree, pet store sand is pricey, although they have some really pretty sand sometimes

[xstefanx]

pet store sand is way pricey, if they even have it. In my thread about my new set up I was comlaining about spending 4 hours looking all over my town for sand, I tried 3 pet stores, 3 walmarts and 2 hard ware stores to no avail. Any who, I also mentioned that I emailed the director of the N2M group who makes the crayola play sand for walmart, they guy called me today and they are going to work something out for me, whether that be getting some sent on a truck to a store or shipping it to me at a very low price to make up for the inconvenience. Not sure how many times the guy will be willing to do this before he gets tired of it but it's worth a try I guess.