Habitat - Indoor :: Filter question - water depth

[easthollow]

We received a baby RES for Christmas and are still learning how to take care of him. The guy at the pet supplies store recommended a Lifetech filter which came without real directions (except for some badly translated Chinese).

The filter's motor is on the top (according to the illustration) and suction-cups to the tank, so in order to run it, as it must be submerged, we would need to fill the tank fairly high. The guy at the store said we install the filter lengthwise along the rear of the tank, but that would submerge the motor, which doesn't look like a good idea.

We only have about two inches of water in the ten-gallon tank, as it's a baby turtle. We have one side built up with gravel so he has land to crawl up on for basking. We bought a lamp for heat.

Here's a picture of our current setup. We haven't installed that filter, but we do have a "turtle-stone" in the water which is supposed to help filter and condition the water. Are those things any good, or should we install a proper filter, and if so, anyone know anything about this Lifetech AP180FC?

[flutterby]

Congrats on your new baby and welcome to the site

First off, you need to realise that the majority of pet store workers know squat about these animals and how to take care of them. So take whatever they say with a grain of salt (a whole salt shaker would be more like it).

I would look in the gallery section and get a new idea for a basking area and get rid of the gravel. A floating doc would allow for more water in your tank and after all they're aquatic turtles and love love love to swim.

As for a filter, you're going to need one that is rated for 3 times your tank size. Turtles are A LOT more messy than fish so it will help keep your water all nice and clean. What kind of filter do you have?

Also, once you raise the water you should get a water heater to keep the water temperature steady. Make sure you have thermometers for your water and basking areas so you can monitor the temps because you don't want them being cooked or too cold (could get sick).

Question, is that a UVB light or a "heat" light?

If I forgot something someone else will come along and add it.

[Pizza]

I have never heard of the filter brand "LifeTech", and I searched it up over the internet, and I failed to find any results either. I assume that it is a cheaper imitation of a more well-known filter brand, and generally, imitations with no clear background information are unreliable. I saw in another post awhile back that someone was inetrested in a cheaper filter on eBay that also had no information, and was concluded it was a cheap imitation of an Eheim brand filter, but I forgot whether it was a LifeTech or not.

I'd be cautious of your brand of filter, they can be unsafe and even hazardous at times.

Turtle Stones, I am not sure of, but they are not necessary in my opinion, since not many people use them. JUst a good filter and regular water changes is fine.

From your picture, I can't figure out what that green net does, could you explain?

You should really refer to the Basic Care Section of this site, it has everything you need for a healthy turtle, but from what I see you should address is:

Well this isn't a necessity at this point, since baby turtles will do fine in a 10 Gallon tank. But baby turtles grow very fast, some as much as 4 inches their first year, and as stated on this site, for a comfortable turtle, 10 Gallons of water should be there for every inch of your turtle's shell length, so prepare for an upgrade for a happy turtle. It's best to buy as big as you can at first, so you don't need to waste money upgrading several times.

Now for lighting, it's recommended that you have both UVA and UVB lighting available for your turtle in its basking area. UVA is just for heat, a regular incandescent bulb is fine, but for UVB you need a specialty reptile light that emits good UVB. Often UVB bulbs state they also have UVA in them, but it is too small you really need a separate bulb for UVA. Unless you have an MVB bulb, it is more expensive and has a way higher wattage, but it gives off both sufficient UVA and UVB. I don't recommend a MVB for tanks smaller than 55 Gallons though, as MVB bulbs are very strong and can easily overheat the entire enclosure, basking area and water. Basking Area temperatures should be from 88-90.

If you have all of that lighting addressed, I noticed you have a screen cover over your tank. Most screen covers sold with tanks or at pet stores are very fine in mesh, and the holes in between are too small. Though at least some UVB is filtered through all screen covers, a hole length of at least 1/2 an inch is fine for UVB rays to travel into the basking area.

Now for water, you definetely need more water. As for the gravel sloping up into the basking area, I recommend against it. Turtles have been known to swallow gravel, and it cannot pass through their digestive tract, causing impaction. This has often led to a sick turtle, surgery, and even death. If you want to have some rocks in your tank, it's a good idea to have them larger than your turtle's head, so they can't fit the rocks in their mouths. A good replacement for the gravel basking area is to purchase or make your own basking area that floats on the water or is suctioned to the glass of your tank. Common basking areas are home made PVC pipe frames or Zoo-Med Turtle Docks.

RES are aquatic turtles, and they spend nearly off of their time in or under the water, they only surface to dry land to bask or lay eggs (for mature females), so there's no worry that your turtle doesn't know how to swim in deep water and would drown. They even sleep under the water. Only exception is if your filter is too strong (usually canister filters for hatchlings, is this LifeTech a canister filter by the way?) and creates a current in the water of your tank which sucks your turtle into it and your turtle can't escape, or the rare situation where your turtle is stuck in a tight space (turtles like to cram themselves into tight spaces), such as the bars on a turtle dock. Hatchlings also have the instinct to swim and dive from the time of their birth, so the water should be filled as high as your turtle can't escape over the top (turtles are crafty and strong, their two front legs can extend very far and can lift their entire body over).

Do you have a proper heater? RES turtles need warm controlled water conditions, they can also freeze if the water is too cold, like humans. Water temperature should be from 78-80 for hatchlings, and 75-78 for Adults.

Proper filtration is neccessary for your turtle, turtles dirty up their water very quickly, and can easily get sick if the water is not clean enough.

[Pizza]

For the current size of your tank, I recommend a good hang on filter, they're a little noisier than a canister filter, since the water trickles down, but it's safer for your turtle.

[easthollow]

Thanks to everyone for the advice so far. It sounds like we need a lot, so here's my current plans:

Water heater - Is Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth Heater a good choice for a tank this size? I saw it in another posting.

Thermometer (do I need two - one for water and one for basking area?)

UVB light, but one that doesn't generate heat. I have a 40 watt heat lamp on there now, though it's sitting right on top of the screen, so I'm hoping it doesn't get too warm until I get the setup fixed. I read to leave it on for a normal day/night cycle, so is that like 12 hours on, 12 off? Another place said 4 hours per day on, so I'm not sure which is correct.

A hang-on filter - is this one that sits outside the tank and draws water up through a tube, filters it, and then spits it back in? That's what I have on our fishtank.

You guys are very helpful. I've been reading posts in the forum and on other sites, but sometimes it's best to ask questions specific to my situation. If I can offer advice on my areas of expertise (web design, databases, general computery stuff, and, uh, comic books), please don't hesitate to ask.

[easthollow]

Oh, and I'll get rid of the gravel and create some kind of basking area.

[easthollow]

Aargh, I'll need to make sure I check before posting that I haven't missed anything. The net was part of the gift we received - it's for the turtle to climb on, though I have a feeling the net will be going once we add a lot more water. It's some kind of lizard net that's supposed to be fun for them to climb on. He was on it once. Don't know if he thought it was fun.

[Kallistos]

The visi-therm stealth heaters are a great choice, they're almost indestructable and accurately keep the temperature. I'd also reccomend a couple cheap digital thermometers, it's best to have thermometers for both water and the basking area. The 40 watt bulb is fine for heat, and then use the UVB light to supplement it. Try and check the baskign temperature right now, make sure it's not excessively high.

Your description of a hang on filter is accurate. It kind of creates a "waterfall" as an example. Just google search and you should be able to find a picture. As for the day/night cycle, 8-10 hours is generally enough light. Don't exceed 12 hours though.

[cam722]

Love Stealth heaters.. The net is basically useless for an aquatic turtle. I've seen them used for lizards but see not sense in them for a turtle. I use Aquaclear filters which are very good ones, but they are the waterfall type. A lot of people complain about the noise because you don't fill the tank as you would for fish.

You'll need at the very least one good thermometer. You can get a good digital thermometer and once you know the basking temp is correct and you won't be moving things around, you can just leave it in your water to make sure that stays stable. When you have a larger tank, I definitely recommend 2 thermometers. The temperatures are very important for healthy turtles.

[Pizza]

Yeah, I agree to that, the Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth Heaters are the best (my opinion) type of aquarium heater, for fish and turtles alike, but especially for turtles, due to it's strong plastic. It keeps the water warm, and is overall, a fine product. Like RESowner34 said, they're almost indestructible (through normal use), unless you feel like slamming it against a table or throwing it into a pit of fire, . It's good to pick a heater size/wattage to match your current settings, or better yet, the largest best Stealth Heater (which is 250w I believe), because turtles grow fast and hatchlings especially, they will need a larger environment very soon, so to prevent wasting money on small upgrades, start big. The heater won't overheat the aquarium, it will turn off once the desired temperature is achieved, so it will just be off a lot more often than it is on (if you buy a bigger heater).

If you can't find a digital thermometer, the stick-ons are great. They're cheap and easy to install, just stick on the outside glass of your tank, and you're set. They are slightly inaccurate though, since they may also pick up the termpature of the room, and record the water temperature through the glass. I advise against a glass thermometer, they're fine for fish, but turtles may bite the glass, causing a bunch of glass, and maybe an injured turtle.

You can use two thermometers if you want, I have a glass thermometer myself that I use to check on the basking area at times. I drop it in there, find out the temperature, then take it back out.

It's best to mimic outside sunlight times, no more than 12 hours, but not too little either. Since I have daylight savings going on here, I have the lights on at different times than what is going on outside, and I think I set my lighting timer to 8 hours.

[mkoby]

If you're doing a Petsmart trip, See if they pricematch their online prices. The heater is much cheaper online!!

[marisa]

That "hammock" is for iguanas, not turtles, and is just taking up space. The pebbles are inadequate as a basking area---they will shift and make it difficult for him to climb as well as making it more difficult to clean. A basking area that allows for swimming space under it would maximize the space in the tank.

UVB lights are flourescent and don't generate heat, so you do need a heat source as well (which you said you already have).

[easthollow]

The pet store was out of the proper size UVB, but should have them in this week. We got a black light for heat at night, in lieu of a heater, which pet store guy said should be sufficient heat for now (different pet store, seemingly much-better informed pet store guy). Got a thermometer. Put some rocks in the tank. Still haven't seen the guy eat (tried pellets, shrimp treats, live worms from pet store guy, and some other thing that pet store guy recommended), and he spends most of his time in the water now. Got a filter in there too.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help.

[Kallistos]

I'll open out with this, so you don't waste anymore money. Don't trust pet store employees when it comes to turtle care, the 1st employee was very stupid, this second employee was just a little less stupid. About 99% of them have no idea what they're talking about and only give reccomendations from their current inventory. With that said..

Remove the black light, here's a quote from another care sheet

DO NOT use "black light" - turtles benefit less from black lights, and frequently a turtle's vision will be damaged due to the intense quality of the beam (it can result in permanent blindness within a short space of time).

Continue to offer fresh food daily even if at first the turtle rejects it. Other than that keep up the effort! You're turtle will thank you for it.

[pumpkinsherbet]

i don't know much about filters (yet) but i would have to agree with everyone here on that petstore employee thing. when i needed help with getting a bulb they couldn't even tell me which one was better. the first guy directed me to the wrong bulbs! they didn't have a clue what would be safe to feed them. there was only one person there that was at all helpful, but i made it easy for him because my question was ''where are the turtle care books?"

likewise, after reading up on tank sizes and habitats, i would have a very hard time trusting any pet store that keeps 20 turtles in a 100 gallon tank with nothing but water. no basking area, poor lighting, water's green. my boss and i are discussing a breakout right now.