General Care Discussion :: The vicious fungal cycle

[khackett]

Hi, I’m a long time turtle owner (20+) yrs, but I have a new challenge. I’m helping a young friend with his RES who has a fungal issue (vet confirmed). My friend, being young, had no idea how to care for a quickly growing RES, and was fighting a losing battle with algae. We solved the environment issue – a completely new (and proper) setup, but the shell obviously had some serious issues. About 80% of the shell was whitish, with a couple minor shell rot spots, so we started it on a course of:

• Dry docking – 23 hrs a day (2, 30 min swims)
• Chlorohexidine washes (vet prescribed) – the entire shell about once a day
• Silver sulfadiazine cream (vet prescribed) – a thorough, but not thick coat about once a day
• Toothbrush scrub with tap water – about once a week
• Occasional light debridement – once a week

This treatment has helped tremendously, but has taken A LONG TIME (All told – about 9 months on/off). I’m a busy person, and the turtle has gone through a couple of minor relapses (busy teenager), but we’re currently at 4 weeks straight of treatment, with 85% of the shell looking great. My main concern is a few spots that look reasonably deep both in the carapace and plastron. We’ve been at this point a couple times, both times resulting in a relapse. We need OUT of this vicious cycle! I have three questions currently:

1) Based on what I’ve mentioned, can anybody see issues with my approach?
2) Any idea how much more treatment will be needed!? I’m most concerned about the deeper spots.
3) I’ve read that salt baths (with aquarium salt) for 30 min a day can help. Anybody have input on this?

I’m VERY appreciative of any feedback experienced RES owners can offer.

Thanks

[steve]

From my experience with shell fungus, the long hours of dry docking do nothing. Chlorohexidine or betadine does not do much. The main thing is to get the RES to shed as much as possible then hit the fungus with silver sulfadiazine. There are secondary issues that can be worse than fungus. Retained scutes/bacterial infections being the main concern. What is involved with the debridement? Treating with SSD cream for that long might result in a resistant strain taking hold, which is my case. When you say there are deep spots, what do you mean? Also, I don't think salt baths do much either. There are several things going on which make treatment difficult and complicated.

[khackett]

Ok, I see we're getting somewhere already! When I say debridement, I mean if there is some shedding happening, I will help it a long if it comes off easy. I do not peel anything off. About once a week there has been a good amount of shedding taking place. Other than that I use the corner of a credit card and scrape the whitish areas gently.

For the "deep" spots, they look similar in form to the whitish spots on the surface, but are clearly not coming off anytime soon (with shedding). They look fairly innocuous in that you might not even notice them if you didn't know there was a fungal issue, but I think it's just deeper fungus.

There is a definitely scute-retaining issue! There are a few that have loosened up, but they've just stayed there for weeks. I've honestly done zero research on "scute retaining".

[steve]

Can you post pictures of those spots?

[khackett]

Two photos are attached. I actually couldn't find many spots. It seems most of it is coming to the surface fairly well. You can see a good amount of fungus still left, but this is markedly better than a few months ago! You can see some pretty decent scarring too, where this thing just sat in algae-ridden water for months (before I got involved). Will be interesting to see how much of that goes away in time.

The photo with the one circle, of the white spot - that doesn't seem to EVER change. That's definitely a spot of concern, and does NOT seem ready to shed any time soon. The other photo is of a couple spots that I had referenced before. They look a little deeper into the plastron than the rest of the infection. The plastron definitely sheds slower than the carapace, so this is the area I'm most anxious about. We're all ready to move on!

I thought there were some "deeper" spots on the carapace, but I'm not really seeing any. There is consistent fungus similar to what you see in these photos, but all seemingly in process of shedding.

Thanks

[khackett]

I'm headed to pet store tomorrow to switch out a UV bulb. I'm realizing it's been about 4 months at 10 hrs a day. That should help this process along. I'm also wondering if it needs a better water filter - like an external canister.

Environment breakdown:

90 gallon fishtank with a 4'x2' basking box and ramp
2 UV lights - one in basking box, one over tank.
Water temp - 76 degrees
Basking temp - 90 degrees
Lights timed at 10 hrs/day
Water filter - Traditional over-the-edge fishtank filter. Tetra Whisper? Fits 2 large cartridges (I'm thinking this isn't enough)

Feeding - every other day, Reptomin, about the size of it's head (in pellets)

Turtle's activity has never been abnormal. Basks often. Eats well.

[steve]

It's hard to make out what it could be, though some of it looks like air pockets forming. I don't really see any fungus in those pictures but I'm sure she'll look much better after a big shed. I'm not sure how much water quality has to do with fungus (as if regular filtering or over filtering) and it's effectiveness. Prevention is the key here. Regular shedding and basking helps the most.

I'd also skip Reptomin. Look for Omega One at the pet store. Also some Hikari Koi pellets as the wheat-germ content is supposedly good for shedding.

[khackett]

Ok great, was wondering about diet. Any harm in some rosys? (feeder fish). This turtle is relentless about eating them (as I'm sure most Sliders are). Maybe a little exercise will get this shedding process moving. Thanks.

[Jeremiah]

Rosy red minnows are okay. Just avoid goldfish!

[khackett]

Great, thanks guys. Anybody else have feedback on timeline? That white spot, while appearing small, is definitely fungus. That's been confirmed. The other whitish areas have gradually gotten better with the treatment that I stated, so I know I'm on the right track, but there are a few areas that clearly aren't "about to shed". I do agree a good shedding is all this turtle needs, but my concern is how long that's going to take. I invite any feedback that can sort of "optimize" this turtles metabolism and activity. I need to get this turtle back to her owner, and I want it to be 100% rid of this fungus to avoid any relapses (again). If I need to commit another 4 weeks of treatment, I will, but I want to do it right.

Treatment environment:

- I'm using two tupperware containers as my "hospital". The dry dock is a 15 gallon container, the other is a 30 gallon container with about 10 gallons of water in it.
- Dry dock has a basking light and a UV light. Basking spot is 90 degrees
- Water has a good submersible filter, and a heater with the water temp at 76 degrees

Feeding:
- I'm going to change this immediately based on suggestions in this string!

Any more feedback out there?

Thanks!

[steve]

I wouldn't put a timeline on treating fungus, though it normally responds quickly to SSD. If it's resistant to it, then you just need to be patient with the shedding. To me, the key is to get the turtle to bask as much as possible.

When I used the cream, I would do it overnight. That's less stressful for the turtle as it can sleep through the night.