General Care Discussion

This is a great guide for a new keeper. I've still got quite a few questions though if you can please help me out with any of them. They're about several different topics so hope this is ok to post under General Care. Thanks in advance if you can help with ANY of the questions!

I'm a new keeper of three 1.25" RES, and I currently have them in a 20long tank 3/4 full with a Whisper 40i internal filter and Zoo Med Slider Hood to reduce evaporation, with Reptisun 5.0 uvb & an incandescent spot for basking.

1) The slider hood ships with a screen over the lamps. I can take it off, but my RES bask about 4" from the bulb, which is quite a bit closer than the 10" recommended on this site. SO WITH MY SETUP SHOULD I LEAVE THE SCREEN ON to intentionally diffuse some of the light? Is there such a thing as RES getting too much uvb by being too close? My alternative would be to use wire cutters to snip out parts of the screen to make the mesh openings 1/2" as recommended (they're currently pretty small- between 1/8 & 1/16").

2) My plan is to get a larger tank and better canister-style filter when the RES get bigger, but for now the 40i seems to have more than enough flow to keep the water clear (it's sized for almost 3 times the 15 gallons of water that are in the tank). But I was reading about biomedia. The Whisper does have a plastic-tined insert piece that slides into the clean side of the filter compartment, that's supposed to work to collect bacteria, and which DOES at least seem to allow growth of some kind of tiny algae on it (I could just BARELY see something growing on the plastic tines when I took the filter apart to clean it after a few weeks in the tank). My question IS THERE ANY REASON I COULDN'T OR SHOULDN'T ADD STANDARD BIOMEDIA in that location of the 40i in place of or in addtion to the plastic-tined insert? I'm assuming the standard ceramic biomedia used in cansiter filters would work better. I couldn't put tons in (especially with the plastic insert in place), but there is definitely some room and I don't see how it could hurt but thought I'd ask.

3) Now that the RES have had several weeks to adjust, I'd like to add fish and real plants. I've currently got some small bamboo shoots that I'm growing on my windowsill in water (the kind commonly sold at Ikea). IS THERE ANY REASON I SHOULDN'T PUT BAMBOO in with the RES?

4) WHAT FISH CAN I KEEP WITH RES? My plan was to get some tiny feeder fish to eat, but HOW BIG DO RES NEED TO BE TO EAT FEEDERS? And I wouldn't mind having cichlids or other nice looking fish in the tank too if the turtles won't bother them. ARE THERE FISH RES COHABITATE WITH WITHOUT ATTACKING? ARE RES COMPATIBLE WITH ALGAE-EATING FISH? Is aggressive behavior usually dependent on relative size? Because eventually I'm planning on putting my RES in a pond outside when they're old enough.

5) Which brings me to my last Q: HOW OLD BEFORE THEY CAN GO OUTSIDE INTO A POND? I live in Tucson AZ. My plan is to build a pond with a shade cloth over it, situated so that summer sun high in the sky does not hit the pond water directly, while winter sun lower in the sky does (I design passive solar water heating systems, so I do know what I'm doing with sun angles). My question is CAN RES HANDLE ARIZONA HEAT IN SUMMER IF THEY HAVE PLENTY OF SHADE? Locally the maximum temps might be 105 ambient air temp in the shade and 85 degree water in the shade. That obviously wouldn't be constant temps- just highs (although the water temps would obviously be more stable). At night during the summer the desert air cools off pretty clost to ideal RES temps. If I installed a mister system I could probably get that air temp down to about 90 degrees ambient in the shade (evaporative cooling works better in the low humidity of the desert than it does in more humid climates). I'd probably install a mister system on the shade structure anyway, just to make it more enjoyable to hang out in the backyard by the pond in the summer.

And when would I need to bring them in for winter? For example WHAT NIGHT-TIME LOWS CAN THEY HANDLE? In winter daytime temps in the sun are often in or near their ideal range.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR READING SO MUCH AND ALL YOUR HELP!

RES will eat any fish you put in their tank. I've had some very aggressive fishes with my turtles though (Oscars) and they have fought the RES back when they tried to bite them, though the oscars were about twice their size. Feeder fishes would work if they have plenty of hiding spots (though expect some, if not all, of them to disappear eventually). You can generally put anything in a tank with a RES as long as it's not sharp or heavy though be minimal about it since you want to give them space to swim too as they are wide, not thin like a fish.
I've seen people wait until the RES was about 2'' before putting them into a pond. Just make sure the pond is well guarded/protected against predators such as raccoons. In the winter, depending on how cold it gets, they would go into a sort of hibernating state (I forgot the technical term for it). Generally, RES will usually try to regulate the heat themselves if you give them the proper areas (ie areas with shade will be ones that they would go to when it gets too hot). Turtles are hardwired for survival.
http://www.redearslider.com/outdoor_overview.html
http://www.redearslider.com/outdoor_considerations.html

Thanks for your help noobEmpty! I'll try the Oscars. Anyone else have answers to the other Q's? Thanks again in advance!

SO WITH MY SETUP SHOULD I LEAVE THE SCREEN ON to intentionally diffuse some of the light? Is there such a thing as RES getting too much uvb by being too close?

I am trying to picture the set up that allows basking 4" from the bulb - is the water level high? It is best to keep the UVB at the recommended distance. If its too close, it can hurt or irritate their eyes (puffy, or dry, or combo of the two). Obviously, some turtle are more sensitive than others. I don't see the need to cut the mesh on the hood, the UVB won't be affected significantly through mesh - it's plastic, glass or water makes them short of useless.

Your safest route is probably to get a cheapish basking thermometer and adjust the lighting (UVB and heat) until the basking areas is 10-15 degrees warmer than the water. I think you will find that 6-10 inches will do the trick if you are using a UVB tube light.

My question IS THERE ANY REASON I COULDN'T OR SHOULDN'T ADD STANDARD BIOMEDIA in that location of the 40i in place of or in addtion to the plastic-tined insert?

They sell Biomedia bags for the 40i - it is really just carbon and floss. I see no reason why you couldn't add some media in the open area, as long as it is contained (i.e., the Bio bag, or carbon in a nylon stocking or something). I would keep the divider that came with it. The ceramic bio media is white bulky, so maybe hold off on that until you have a larger filter.

IS THERE ANY REASON I SHOULDN'T PUT BAMBOO in with the RES

I think the jury is still out on whether it is unsafe for them to eat bamboo. What we see as decor, they see as food.
If in doubt, you can buy fake bamboo - that's what I use. It doesn't get waterlogged and she hides in it.

My question is CAN RES HANDLE ARIZONA HEAT IN SUMMER IF THEY HAVE PLENTY OF SHADE

Sorry - I can't answer that one.

A lot of ambiguous answers, I know. But there never seems to be a cut-and-dry answer for anything. Each little guy or gal seem to have their own quirks.

Take a picture of your setup and post it up.

Oscars will get huge and require a 55 gallon tank minimum just for the fish, with the turtle your looking at something over 100+ gallons with a filter to match.

I would try cheap fish that you don't mine losing first. Maybe you'll get lucky and your turtle will get used to having fish in the tank and not kill them.
Don't get your hopes up as this is highly unlikely in the long term as the turtle gets larger.

Mine have handled Vegas heat with both shade and direct sun (for basking). I had a great outdoor pond in the dead heat of summer and the water temperature was always pretty nice, the turtles had places under the water that were shaded / hidden, and they had a shade over one whole side of the pond so they could hang out above water without basking.

And plants - having the plants helped a lot. They provided shade and munchies for the turtles.

I'd say totally doable but definitely, definitely make sure they're protected with a net or some kind of mesh over the top. Birds are a threat too, believe it or not. BIRDS.

I would say with how you describe your setup that nobody would need to come in at night. The water stays at a pretty even temperature range even in the hottest part of summer, even at night.
Check the temperature readings from a lake nearby - the state website for Nevada has a temp graph for Lake Mead water temperatures at five feet of depth that I went with and discovered my pond was almost the same, temperature-wise.

Great info- thanks! Attached is a pic of my current setup in the 20long tank. You can see with the big zoo med hood the cork basking platform is about 4" away from the reptisun 5.0 tube (the tube itself is recessed about 1" from the bottom of the hood). I can't find anything about 4" being too close to a tube uvb (especially a 5.0) or getting 'too much' uvb (I leave the light on 12 hrs). I did see some things about it being possible to put mercury uvbs too close, but I think that's because they're designed to operate at a distance (and would get too hot too close to a basking area). I use a 25w incandescent spot lamp and it seems to do a great job keeping both the water and the basking area at good temps in the current setup. I measure with a temperature gun for accuracy, and it shows the water at the bottom of the tank farthest from the spot to be 75 degrees & under the spot at 78, while the cork surface reads 85 and the turtle's shells read 90 when they double-stack close to the lamp.

This site says mesh should be 1/2" grid, and that even 1/4" can cut uvb rays by 30%. The mesh on my hood is much finer- it looks to be between 1/16 & 1/8". I can trim it with wire cutters to be 1/2" (will take a while), but I'm wondering since I've got the uvb at 4" distance rather than the 6-10" most people seem to use, that maybe the finer mesh is actually a good thing, balancing out the proximity of the bulb? For what it's worth, the turtles don't seem to mind the proximity of the bulb at all. They bask a lot, and their eyes don't seem to be swollen or rubbing them a lot or anything (they used to rub their eyes a lot back when I first got them and I was using a zilla cfl bulb, which got me doing some research and choosing this zoo med 5.0 instead). So now that you see the setup, what do you folks recommend: trim the mesh, or leave it well enough alone since the turtles seem to be doing fine and they're closer to the bulb anyway?

Regarding the Vegas pond, when do you bring them in for the winter? Or do you let them stay outside year round and hibernate? I think I'll bring them in for winters, but I just don't know if I should bring them in when the night water temps start dropping below a certain temp? Night time temps in Tucson drop below freezing a few times each winter, but not enough to completely freeze a pond (the worst may completely freeze a birdbath). Winter daytime temps are always above freezing, and can even reach 70. I'm guessing temps in Vegas are pretty similar, so I'm curious what you do in winter? Also, any thoughts on if they should be a minimum size before they go outside to a pond? They're currently only 1.25" so I'm pretty sure they will still be fairly small in May when I was thinking of building the pond.

Thanks again for any and all answers!

forgot to say I definitely need a hood because the cat has shown signs of wanting to play with them

About mid-October the outside temperatures reached the mid-to-low 80s on a fairly consistent basis and the water temperature dropped below 70 at night. That's when I brought them inside. The water temperature stayed about 70 during the day but the drops at night of almost ten degrees got my butt moving to make the indoor setup.

This was my first summer and winter dealing with the pond and turtles, and I have learned a whole lot. One bit of wisdom to impart is that the larger the turtle is, the easier it is to catch in a body of water (by my experience). If you're going to bring your turtles in for winter, think ahead of how you're going to catch them.

It took a team of five people to get mine all corralled (though I had a pool-sized pond so your mileage may vary with your pond since you get to design it).

While it's true your RES will eat any fish you put in the tank, I've got a pleco that's been living with mine for the last two years. When I first put him in the tank I had to build hiding spots (I made caves out of the river rocks in the tank) that my turtle could not get into. Now that the pleco is bigger he can fend for himself. They have poisonous spikes and will sting you with them if you threaten them, and I'm guessing that's why my turtle has never been successful in trying to eat the pleco. Every once in a while my turtle will snap at him, or take a piece out of his fin, but that's it.

Scratch that. Tonight I was cleaning Sgt. Drake Alexander's tank and realized I hadn't seen Ptolemaeus, my pleco. I guess my turtle ate his roommate of two years and didn't even leave a trace. I can't imagine what it must feel like to digest that. He was a pretty big fish!

josephkr wrote:Scratch that. Tonight I was cleaning Sgt. Drake Alexander's tank and realized I hadn't seen Ptolemaeus, my pleco. I guess my turtle ate his roommate of two years and didn't even leave a trace. I can't imagine what it must feel like to digest that. He was a pretty big fish!

OH NO

.... well, that sucks. Poor Ptolemaeus.

I've had to take everything out of my baby turtle's tank because he nipped even the largest fish I put in there. All he's got now is a fake log and a basking floaty thing and that's all he's getting. Hmph.

General Care Discussion :: New keeper trying to get it right- Questions!

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