Urgent Care :: RI or Vet Mistake? Dying turtles! Help!

[smileyandfatso]

Hi, I promise to introduce myself at the welcome center, but I'm freaking out about my turtles.
My name is Kim, and I'm a college student at Columbia University. I bought two turtles recently from Chinatown, and I know that Chinatown RESes are usually very very sick. They were fine and happy until I decided to bring them to the vet. I went to the vet just for general check-up, and she said I was very lucky because I got one of the malnourished but generally healthy turtles. She gave them antiboitic shots and vitamin A shots, charged me $208 (which was basically all of the money I had to spend), and sent me on my way.

When I got home, they looked dead. They wouldn't move, wouldn't eat, wouldn't open their eyes. They are completely lethargic, listless, and almost comatose. They were so happy and healthy before; now they won't even look up.

I cranked up their heater to 89 degrees and I fed them some sugar water to keep them going. I called the doctor, and all she had to say to me was that there was nothing she could do about it. I can't get an appointment with a vet until Monday by which they will both probably dead, not to mention the fact that I can't even afford it. I've tried every vet place and they keep sending me to the same one who can't see me until a few days.

What can I do? Does this sound like RI or an adverse reaction to whatever the vet gave them?

Info:
How big is your turtle? 1.2 inches each
How long have you had it? 10/29/06

What is the water temperature? 89 F
Are you using a water heater? yes
How much water is in there? 15 g
Are you using a water conditioner? yes
Are you using any filtration? yes

What is the basking temperature? 89 F
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? sort of
What kind is it or what is it made out of? floating rock suction-cupped to side
Is there a UVB light? box doesn't specifically say UVB on it

What have you been trying to feed it? generic turtle pellets, carrots, worms
When was the last time your turtle ate? yesterday

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 30 gallon tank
Is the tank near a window? no
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? yes

Have you read the Basic Care section? in other forums and places, yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms?
just basking, not moving

[flutterby]

I'd lower the water temp to 82-85 degrees, but other than that I'm not sure.

[megcornell]

I'd second that the water is much too warm, probably so warm as to entice them not to enter it. I'd also think it's pretty important to get them to eat, so you may want to try some tuna when the water is cooler (80-82) and perhaps that will help get their strength back. The only thing that I can think of that could have happened is if they got too much vit A, which leads to vitamin A toxicity and liver damage. As this is an acute case, I don't think there's a remedy, the usual course of action is to stop vitamin A supplements. YOu'll just have to wait out the period of time it'll take the turtles to digest the vitamin A and try to keep them as healthy as possible then.

I;m also not sure why the vet would give an antibiotic if there wasn't an apparent illness other than malnourishment? Do you happen to know what antibiotic it is?
Unfortunately it sounds to me like your vet wasn't terribly certain of how to treat your turtles, and just sort of "winged it"... my advice would be to call the Cornell Vet Hospital, they have a hotline and ask them what you can do to help your turtles (the # is 607-253-3060 then press option 1 for an emergency because its the only line open on weekends). Then you can look online for a herp vet in NYC if there is indeed a method to reduce the damage from the Vitamin A... good luck!

[marisa]

The Vit A shots could definitely pose a problem. I don't know why these shots seem to be automatically given, especially when a turtle is small and correct dosage can be hard to determine. They can do more harm than good, and from what you wrote they didn't sound like they needed anything like that...What antibiotics were your turtles given?

Rather than sugar, you might put them in 50/50 solution of Pedialyte and water to give them some electrolytes. Lower the water temp to 81-82F---it's way to warm for them.

Do try that number suggested above, and seek out a different herp vet. Good luck. Let us know what happens.

[Andrew7769]

i would try and get some compinsation or maybe a portion of your money back from that vet it seems like that was the problem do you know the name and place of the vet so other people might not have to deal with them?

[cam722]

I was going to make the same comment that Marisa did. Why do they automatically give antibiotics ... sometimes that causes more harm than good.

[smileyandfatso]

thanks everyone. i'm getting help from an turtle doctor as opposed to some random vet who deals with turtles. one of them died this morning, and i dont think the other one is going to make it, but thanks so much everyone.
I appreciate it.
~Kim

The place I went to:
Dr. Canter
Westside Veterinary Center
220 W 83rd St.
NY, NY 10025

[steve]

Sorry for the loss. Is the Westside Veterinary Center the one that screwed up?

[megcornell]

Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss, the poor turtles

[marisa]

Carol, I was referring to the Vit A shots (although unnecessary antibiotics can also cause problems). It seems like Vit A shots are often given as a matter of course, whether or not they're even needed. I'd be cautious about letting any of my turts automaticallly get one. Sometimes the urge to do "something" to justify an office visit just makes things worse...

I'm truly sorry for your loss, Kim. I hope the other one makes it.

[JNZBCBnLIL]

this scares me... I want to take my RES to the vet just to get a check up to make sure everything is going smoothly but why would I wanna do that when he's acting normal, eatting fine, and has no signs or symptoms of problems after 2 months of having him when the vet could only just hurt him? I know hatchlings are known for hiding their symptoms until the problem is really bad but I don't want to go to a vet having no idea and no experience of what he or she may do to my turtle that could cause problems...?

I'm so sorry for your loss, Kim! I hope things turn around for your other little one!

[megcornell]

JNZBCBnLIL, I think some people on this site may feel differently but in my opinion, I wouldn't take my turtle to the vet's unless it were sick. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I had a good relationship with a herp vet like I do with the vet for my cats and dogs and felt I could trust them with my turtle's routine checks. But for the most part, I can't really think of a good reason to take a turtle to the vets for a check-up.... they don't get shots, most don't have contact with other turtles- limiting their chances of contracting illnesses, and most problems in turtles can be avoided or fixed via habitat and dietary changes... so to me a vet seems like a good idea only if your turtle could be ill with somelike like a fungal infection, RI, or a serious shell break or the like....

[marisa]

I'd consider taking a seeming healthy turtle to a herp vet for a check-up if the turtle were new to me and I was going to introduce the turtle to an established aquarium (and a quarantine period would also be imposed just in case). Turtles that I have and know well haven't gone for check-ups unless they've exhibited symptoms that something is wrong.

[CountryGirl68]

I took my turtle to the vet after having him for 2 weeks for a regular check up. Although I was questioning a claw issue, I really wanted to check out the vet first. I think that's important so that you know if the vet is knowledgeable enough to treat the turtle should he ever get sick.

[JNZBCBnLIL]

So could I take Leo to the vet and say "I really just wanted you to look at him but he's healthy as far as I can see so unless you find something wrong can we keep this to just a check up?" cus she was saying her turtles were healthy yet the vet still gave shots??? which I actually don't get!??