Urgent Care :: New Turtles, possible problem HELP!

[TurtlePower]

How big is your turtle? 1 or 2 inches
How long have you had it? 3 days

What is the water temperature? 78 degrees
Are you using a water heater? YES
How much water is in there? 14.5 gallons in a 29 gal. tank
Are you using a water conditioner? YES, ZooMed
Are you using any filtration? ZooMed 501

What is the basking temperature?
Is there a basking light? YES, regular 60 Watt bulb
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? YES
What kind is it or what is it made out of? ZooMed turtledock
Is there a UVB light? YES, reptisun 10.0

What have you been trying to feed it? ZooMed pellets
When was the last time your turtle ate? Unsure if they ever have

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 29 Gallon all-glass
Is the tank near a window? NO
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Fair amount, but not like basketball

Have you read the Basic Care section? YES
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? YES

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms?


Turtles are keeping eyes closed. Starting today, the RES closed their eyes and hardly open them. Sort of like swimming around blindly. I have noticed that they are rubbing their eyes.

The tank was setup yesterday and I'm including pics of the setup.

Could the 60 WATT regualar light bulb be too close or too/not enough hot?


Picked these guys up in Destin, FL and brought them back home to TN this past friday.

The water is natural spring water that was put in yesterday.

[staman]

Not a bad setup for a first timer. Congrats. Do you have a freshwater test kit? I live in Toronto so i know the water is safe and purified. Spring water might be and might not. I also have a 6 stage reverse osmosis filter You might want to see if a water change with bottled water ( 10-15 gallons) makes a difference until you figure out your water problem. Are you using a water conditioner? When res rub theyre eyes its usually due to clorine and cloramimine but you wouldnt expect that with spring water. It could also be many other things...

[the_orphaned]

Could be that there is an irritant in the water. Maybe the water is contaminated?

[staman]

Sorry didnt notice you answered yes to the conditioner question. You might want to do a water change with pure water (as stated) without the conditioner and see what happens.

As for the light being too close/too far away: You basically want the basking spot 10-12 degrees hotter than the water so in this case around 90-92F. Put a thermometer on the basking spot and move the light up or down accordingly. I use a 100 watt UVA and its about 14 inches from the basking spot. Once you have the water problem sorted out fill that sucker to the top. RES just love to swim swim swim...

[samandnelly]

They may have an eye infection from lack of vitamin A. I'd get some carrots in there and some eyedrops.

[missibsu]

I see where it could be a couple of things...

Is it possible that too much conditioner was used? Too much could cause irritation.

Eye infection is the other thought, and can be quite common. Sometimes eye infections are part of a larger problem, but not always. Are there any other symptoms? Lathargy? Wheezing? Blowing bubbles?

For a basic eye infection, zoo med sells turtle eye drops. I've never used them, but they come highly recommended by others on this site. For basic eye irritation, cod liver oil is also a good source of vitamin A.

If you notice any of the other signs, you may want to schedule a vet visit. Are both turtles experiencing this? If not, they really should be separated. And be sure to keep the water really clean.

[TurtlePower]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Consider this. I have fed them the past couple of days and thought the food was disappearing but the food is accually dropping to the bottom.

I picked up a net last night in hopes to clean some of the old food up. Would one of those syphon tubes help try to suck some of the old food up off of the bottom.

My thoughts are that the food is contaminating the water. This possible?

I will probably do a water change with different water.


In adding carrotts there, would there be a benefit adding them if the turtles wont eat them? I dont think they will. I don't think they are eating at all.

Again, thanks for the replies and I look forward to more!

[Allusion5275]

Just went through similar conditions (possibly not the same problem however) and here was the problem and solutions I used:

My turtle's eyes were swollen shut and he stopped eating and was pawing at his eyes.

Diagnosis was respiratory infection/eye infection.

Solutions that worked:

- Took him to a herp vet.

- Increased the temperature of the water to 85 F (most folks on the boards advise you to go just over 80 to around 82, I raised mine to the mid 80s on a vet's advice.)

- Made sure the basking spot was 10 degrees above the water temp.

- Did a complete water change without using conditioner and used tap water, again on the vet's advice. Disinfected all of the stuff in the tank and the tank.

- Drydocked (took the turtle out of the water and kept him in a dry enclosure, a plastic bowl,) him and, when dry, treated him with antibiotic/steroid eyedrops. He stayed out usually 30min to an hour during which his eye(s) usually opened up some.


Anyway, after about a week of treatment and trying things he got better and started eating this weekend. You want to ensure they can get warm to raise their immune system. As far as the light hurting their eyes, I pointedly asked the vet and he said in almost exact words "no way". I would say no way if you are using a reptisun 10.0 (flourescent light?). In my case I was using a mercury vapor bulb and was worried with it being an extremely high output light it was hurting them. The vet said if it were a problem they would stay out of the basking area (mine try to get closer to it by climbing). He also said that although chlorine can sometimes irritate them, it is usually more helpful to leave it in the water to prevent infections. He said most of the regular turtle keepers who do not use a dechlorinator, or who do not completely dechlorinate the water have almost no problems.

I doubt the food in the water is the direct cause of the problem, however leaving it in there does dirty the water which can cause infections due to bacterial growth. I am about 90% certain this is why mine got their infection.


So...I am left now with my turtles in their small tank with a high heat and light regimen, treating with antibiotics and using chlorinated water. The first step I would advise is to find a good turtle vet(not just a herp vet) near you. My first vet I took him to was "ok" the second guy was one I had to make an appointment with and wait a few days, wish I had saved the cash and just waited.


It sounds like you have a good start on the habitat stuff, the only changes you may want to make are adding some thermometers, one for the water and one for the basking area so you can ensure you are getting good temperatures. From there you may need to adjust your heating up or down.




Good luck with the little guys!



Luke

[TurtlePower]

Luke, thanks for the awesome, helpful reply.

I do have a water thermometer but not one for the basking dock. What kind of therm. should i get to accuaratly measure the temp of the dock? And where can I get it?

I'm going to do a water change right now in a minute and see if I can locate some zoomed eye drops.

If this doesn't help the situation, I will locate a herpatologist.

Again, thanks everyone for all the help!

[steve]

OK, first... they do not get eye infections from lack of vitamin A. Second, cod liver (and most other fish oils) have very high concentrations of vit A. If the eyes are swollen/closed when the turtle is out of the water, then you can try to apply some very gently to their eye lids - use a different q-tip for each eye, in case it is an infection. Swollen/closed eyes are a symptom of a vitamin A deficiency but there are many other causes.

Are you using the white turtle shaped block as a water conditioner? Chuck it, and look for a real water conditioner that treats for chlorine and chloramines. Reptisafe I know treats for chlorine, not sure about the other. Try adding some guppies to see if they can tolerate the water you are using for the turtle.

Let your turtles dry off for an hour or so, with air temp thats about 75F and check on their eyes. I also recommend that you locate a herp vet that specializes in turtles.

[Allusion5275]

I have found that what works for me thermometer-wise is the little flat heat sensitive stick on plastic thermometers. I just toss one of those on the outside of the tank where I can see it easily. For the basking area (or water) I got a little digital one that gives air temp at the location of the display and the air or water temp of the probe (has about 2 foot cord and a suction cup). I usually leave it stuck to the glass beside the turtle dock or if I want to make sure the strip is reading right I dunk it in the water and let it equilibrate and compare them...so far the strip and the digital are always within a degree of each other...which is fine since the digital one is more precise (down to tenths of a degree) and the other is accurate to one degree.

I agree with Steve, you should find out what is wrong with the turtles. The vitamin A drops will not hurt him unless you overdo them, but they might not fix the problem. From what the vet told me, vitamin A deficiency is not unheard of in small turtles but it usually takes a bit of time with a poor diet (so it usually is a somewhat older turtle than yours) whereas respiratory infections can come somewhat faster.

He also told me that turtles will get sicker slower than mammals and get well slower as well. I am sure you have seen a child with a 100+ fever and a cold one day be outside playing the next. With the slower metabolisms the turtles can't do that as well. This is definitely what I am seeing now. It has taken Carlos 1 week plus to get a little better, and I took him to the vet the day after I noticed it and again later in the week to a different vet.

The other thing which could apply to your case as well is that with them getting sicker slower, they had a good chance of being sick already before you got them, it just took them a while to show it. So don't beat yourself up, it sounds like you are providing them with very good care.



Luke


PS.
Here are the types/brands of the stuff I am using:

Small/Quarantine tank (15-20 gallon):
Aquaclear 50 filter
Zoo Med small light stands (2)
Fluker medium clamp lamp w/ ESU 160W Super-B Mercury Vapor Floodlight (provides heat, UVA and UVB)
Zoo Med (?) Turtle dock (which I cut to make smaller, they didn't have the small one in stock)
Lifegard little time or temp digital thermometer
ESU porcelain heat emitter clamp lamp and 100W ceramic heat emitter (for night time use)
Topfin stickon strip thermometer
Various floating plants (for them to hang out in)
Reptisafe water treatment (not using this currently)


Large (permanent home) 75 Gal tank:
Fluval 405 canister filter and a fluval 4+ internal filter (mainly to move water around) (Let me say that the 405 was a real pain in the butt to get started, but I figured out a way to make it work)
I will use the same lights from above primarily but I also have two other clamp lamps and a small heat lamp (exo terra 60w) and an ESU 7% UVB flourescent bulb (looks a lot like yours...probably same or very similar)
Stealth 250w (maybe 300..can't remember) water heater
Same sorts of thermometers (I just move the digital one)
One of the floating log (Zoomed) things which my guys love
Flat large river rocks instead of gravel
Floating and rooted plastic and silk plants
Piece of sterilized drift wood anchored to a piece of flat rock

[marisa]

They indirectly can get eye infections from a lack of Vit A in that a Vit A deficiency lowers the system's resistance to disease/infection.

What are the water and basking area temps? Is the turtle in a room with AC?

[steve]

Marisa, thanks for the clarification... I wasn't completely thinking when I wrote that. TurtlePower, carrots would only be beneficial if your turtles ate them. Foods rich in beta-carotene are much better than a vitamin A supplement.

[TurtlePower]

Ok guys, again thanks for the replies.

I've picked up some eye drops and going to change the water now.


So what would u guys recomment for a Vit A supplement since I'm not sure if the turtles are eating yet?

[marisa]

The Zoo-Med eye drops contain a form of Vit A.

They'll eat pellets? You could just dab one or two of them with a bit of cod liver oil. Don't overdo it, though, and don't do this every day. For veggies with beta carotene, try also pumpkin, squash, red peppers.