Urgent Care :: Under Shell - Soft Looking Spot

[Kame]

First, the questions:

How big is your turtle? About 12cm.
How long have you had it? 5 years.

What is the water temperature? 78F.
Did you use a thermometer? No.
Are you using a water heater? Yes.
How much water is in there? I don't know exactly.
Are you using a water conditioner? Yes.
Are you using any filtration? Yes.

What is the basking temperature? I don't know. There's a 60w lamp on top of the basking spot.
Is there a basking light? Yes.
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes.
What kind is it or what is it made out of? It's a zoomed Turtle Dock.
Is there a UVB light? Yes.

What have you been trying to feed it? Pellets.
When was the last time your turtle ate? This morning.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? Not too big.
Is the tank near a window? No.
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Somewhat. Small apartment with 2 humans.

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes.
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes but I haven't found any information. I might be unaware of what's the name of the problem.

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? No.

______

Are you aware of when turtles start shedding their skin, not the caparace, and there will be some loose and somewhat transparent skin still attached to their bodies, such as legs and neck, before it falls off?

I noticed this on my turtle's underside of the shell today.

Removing her from the water and having her dry a little, this is what scared the heck out of me.
It looks as if the "lines" between the scutes are really soft and a specific part is looking reddish and a bit swollen and very sensitive to my touch. No, the turtle didn't complain, so to speak, when I touched it, but it feels sensitive.

There are more parts of the lower shell that look like this, but I believe this is the main problem area right now, the most delicate part.

Also, I have no clue what are the greenish spots on the side scutes, but I will investigate further into it.

For now, I'd really love some input on what could this delicate are be and how I could fix it.

The three images are attached on this post. I hope you guys can help me.

All the best.

[steve]

Hi Kame, I think you'll need to see a vet about this. I don't think I've seen anyone post something like this, but a breach in the shell is never normal. It looks really thin at the seams, and this could be due to an infection. Are there any other shell issues? Retained scutes? Fungus?

[Kame]

Hello, Steve, good evening.

I do believe there are more issues related to the shell. I can't quite identify them but the scutes don't come out in one piece so much as they sort of flake away. I haven't identified fungus but who knows. My baby basks a lot but only under artificial lightning, unfortunately, and I am sure that the diet I am providing him isn't nutritional enough (pellets only, I'll have to fix that immediatly).

I got incredibly worried about this soft spot (so much it earned me a raging headache for the past 6 hours).
I'm calling a vet tomorrow morning to set an appointment and figure out what's the problem.

As soon as I have a professional telling me what to do I will post here for future reference in case anyone else encounters a similar situation.

Again, Steve, thank you. You are always a kind and helpful soul.

[steve]

You're welcome. Progress updates would greatly be appreciated. Many shell injuries require dry docking but this is very unusual to see it spread out this way.

[Kame]

Veterinarian appointment probably on wednesday. Still pending confirmation from the doctor.

At home visit, in order to check not only Kame (my nickname is my turtle's name, hehehe ) but the entire setting, the terrarium, lightning and everything.

I feel so much relief.

I will certainly post a follow up. I hope my bizarre situation can enlighten other people's.

Steve, again, thank you.

[Moose]

Do keep us posted I am highly interested!

[Kame]

Hello Moose and Steve.

The vet has just left my apartment. Here's what he told me in an one hour consult:

- Kame has some carapace and plastron problems, which could indicate some sort of deficiency.
Initially, I will add a vitamin complex to the food and we will see in two weeks if there's any change like more shedding of the scutes.
Kame also eats her own poop all the time, so the vet thinks there might indeed be some sort of underlying issue there, and as soon as I can scoop some poo before she eats it, he will have a parasite exam done on the feces.

- The wound on the 'chest', so to speak, is probably a consequence of the abrasion that happens when the poor thing tries to get up on the platform. It's a Zoomed, Turtle Dock, and I've seen her trying to get on it, and boy it looks tough. The surface is very rough. Of course, given that the entire shell is not reaaaaly in the best situation possible, there could be something else to it but it looks like a regular lesion. I will treat the wound with a type of antiseptic (Povidone-iodine) followed by an antibiotic (Rifamycin), both local on the wound and he will evaluate it on a follow up visit.
First things first - fix the way she gets up on the platform, treat the wound, see if it regresses and then figure out the entire carapace and plastron not shedding problem.

Steve, he did not recomend dry docking, but said I should wait for the medicine to dry before putting Kame back in the water.

The discussion went on for a long time regarding habits, lightning, heat.

Oh, for reference, Kame is a brazilian slider. Scientific name is Trachemys dorbignyi.

Updates will be posted here.

[Moose]

That sounds like a good plan, what does ur dock look like and how long have you been using it?

[Kame]

I´ve been using this dock for about a month, maybe a month and a half.
Kame gets up on the platform by clinging the front paws to it, but often the lower part of the body will, how can I say it.... float and slide under the platform, meaning and she will keep rubbing the equivalent of the chest on the platform. Maybe that´s one of the reasons that wound appeared.

Yesterday I bought a river rock and set it right under the platform, so now she climbs on it with the rock serving as a sort of support for the back paws, so no more plastron rubbing.

From sunday to tuesday the wound had grown a bit. I've been taking regular photos of it to keep a documented evolution of the problem.

Wish us both luck.

[steve]

Eating poop is quite normal since they are opportunistic eaters, I don't think that is a factor here.

While I really don't like the Zoo Med dock, it's not abrasive. Is Kame able to completely dry off when basking? How long does he bask for?

Shedding takes time. Do you have any access to direct sunlight for your turtle?

Did the vet say to dilute the medicine? Can you use alternatives? I usually recommend people try diluted Betadine of Chlorhexidine.

Have you notified they vet about it growing? As I mentioned before... it's a bit unusual and I'm not sure what would cause the shell to weaken that way.

[Kame]

Hi, Steve.

Regarding the poop eating habits, initially the vet thought everything was normal, until I told him each and every poop gets eaten. There is never, ever, ever anything left. Yesterday I was paying attention and I noticed that Kame poops, turns around and eats it. Sooo disgusting, but watching him doing it it comes with the mom job, haha.

He mentioned that we should have the poop analyzed for parasites or something along those lines. Can´t hurt, right?

Initially, I also thought the dock would be okay, not too abrasive, but since the wound is exactly on the spot he rubs against the platform, I figured I should fix as a preventive measure, if that´s not the reason for the wound.

And yes, shedding does take time, but Kame's carapace it not in such a great shape. I´m attaching a picture for reference of how it looked about two weeks ago. Excuse the bad photo, this is what I have on my phone right now. It doesn't look too good, I think, specially in comparison with healthy carapaces I see on photos around the forum. Also, sunlight during winter (southern hemisphere here) is sooo rare in my apartment, it shows for about 30 minutes around 7am. Meaning that for now all I am left with is the UVB lamp. Next summer I'll set a separate tank on the balcony.

Regarding the medicines, he didn't say anything about diluting it. Yesterday I applied it normally. I should do it twice a day for 2 weeks.

He couldn't tell exactly what the wound was, so this is an attempt to see if by cleaning and applying antibiotic I can make it go away for now and improving the shell as a whole I can prevent it from happening again.

Oh, gosh, I wrote an entire essay about Kame now. I'm sorry for the rant.

Ok, I'll stop now haha. Thank you for all the support.

PS: I love this photo of Kame. I am sure he's saying "why oh why are you bothering me, waking me up from my afternoon sleep, you puny human?"

[steve]

A test for parasites won't hurt but probably not necessary. I would be more curious about a blood test, to see if there are any infections. Keep us updated! It's incredible how much these little creatures make us worry.

[Kame]

Hi Steve.

I have been cleaning the spot twice a day but haven't photographed yet. As soon as I have visual evidence, so to speak, I'll post it.

Kame looks absolutelly normal and is behaving accordingly. Adorable as ever, and I'd even go as far as saying we are bonding (since I have instructions from the vet to feed him pellet by pellet after I medicate the wound haha).

And crap, why do I keep on calling 'him', 'her'? I always thought it was a girl, now I have a gender issue haha.

[Kame]

By the way, a bonus photo, just because I am annoyingly proud of my baby.

[steve]

Thanks for the update! Was there a reason to feed by hand? Is this a different type of pellet?