Urgent Care :: Red Ear Slider -- Not Eating Even After Vet Trip

[edmundloh]

Hi,

My name is Edmund Loh. This is my first time posting in this forum, but I hope you can take my post just as serious. I have read the posting rules and I believe this is the best place to come to.

I usually participate in other kind of forums so I won't know the culture of the forum here just yet.

Anyway...

I have a Red-Eared Slider which initially sufferred from inflammation (or swell by the side of the face). The growth was there only 2-3 months ago, which was never there when I first bought it 7 months ago (it was small at that time).

The swell got worsen on Xmas eve, especially after it was attacked on that "swollen" spot by another tortoise. I also noticed it stopped eating on that day. (It usually eat turtle pellets)

So, I took it to the vet on Christmas without taking any chances. The doctor performed a surgical excision on the "growth" and removed it. I was given the antiobotic to feed the tortoise daily and cream to apply on the spot where the "growth" was removed.

One problem still remains: the tortoise is still not eating.

What could be wrong? It was eating normally before this and now it suddenly stops eating. It has stopped eating since 2 days ago (Xmas eve).

==========================
Other information on the tortoise below:
==========================

How big is your turtle?
A: About the size of your palms stretched.

How long have you had it?
A: 7 months. Bought it when it was still little.

What is the water temperature?
A: There is no water in the tank at the moment on vet advice in order for the "scar" on the removed "growth" to heal. I will put the water in only tomorrow, and if it is room temperature, it will be around 25-28 degree celcius.

Are you using a water heater?
A: No.

How much water is in there?
A: No water in the tank at the moment on vet's advice. When I fill in again, it's usually about the tortoise's height (when crawling on belly).

Are you using a water conditioner?
A: No.

Are you using any filtration?
A: No.

What is the basking temperature?
A: No.

Is there a basking light?
A: No.

Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on?
A: No.

Is there a UVB light?
A: No, whatever that is.

What have you been trying to feed it?
A: Turtle pellets. It has always been eating turtle pellets, only stopped eating 2 days ago. It never ate vegetables and other food.

When was the last time your turtle ate?
A: 2 days ago, 24th December 2005.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure?
A: 60cm x 20 cm.

Is the tank near a window?
A: No, it's in the living hall.

Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity?
A: My mom, sister and I are in the living hall most of the time.

Have you read the Basic Care section?
A: Yes, I did. I didn't find anything that could help yet, but I will give it a shot again after this.

Have you searched the forums for similar situations?
A: I read the first page's thread -- I dont think any other tortoise owners are sharing the same problems. Mine isn't a newborn, it's probably more than 7 months old. But it suddenly stopped eating.

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms?
A:

- Just took it back from the vet yesterday.
- Have difficult time trying to feed the antibiotic.
- Tortoise is unusually shy now. Was never that way before this. Probably in shocked when I approach it.

** Other notes:
- I have another tortoise that is always in the same tank as this one. However, it doesnt have any of these conditions but perfectly fine, even in the same condition.

Some help will be appreciated. Thanks.

Edmund Loh

[steve]

It sounds like it was an ear abscess. If you do have a red ear slider, you are missing some very basic elements of a suitable habitat. Medication can cause a loss of appetite. Also a slider cannot eat out of water. There are other things I would comment on, but I will have to do that later.

[edmundloh]

Hi Steve,

Yes, that is right -- ear abscess. I learned that from a web site online and hence I took the tortoise to the vet the following day.

I understand it could be due to stress that it won't eat for now. Before this, it was eating well and it obviously beat the other red-ear slider in terms of munching the pellets and outgrew the other.

I really await your next reply, Steve. I lost another red-ear slider months back but learned it was already sick the moment I bought it. I don't want to lose this one now. I have taken care of it for some time already, but the sudden change now worried me.

Thanks.

Edmund Loh

[cam722]

I've heard/read that when a turtle is on antibiotics they often lose their appetite. So I think this is rather common. You may want to do a search on the forum for other posts regarding antibiotic use.

As Steve said, a RES must be in water to eat. I'm sure you can put the turtle in water for a few minutes daily so that it can eat. Maybe the vet not to keep it in water like it would normally be for most of the time, but just a few minutes daily to eat and get wet.

I do have a few comments on your setup but I have to ask if your answers are for your normal setup or for the temporary situation with your turtle being out of water?

I do have to mention this though.. You don't even know what a UVB light is? You really should look up information on the basic care of an RES. They need UVB light in order to metabolize calcium which is needed for strong bones and shell.

You also say your turtles have no basking area. How does it get out of the water to dry off. They MUST be allowed to get out of the water to totally dry off so that they don't get shell rot. This might be one of the reasons your turtle ended up with an ear abcess. I have other comments but I think this is long enough for now and I'm sure others will add to this ... Good luck with your turtle.

[edmundloh]

Hi Carol,

Please see replies below:

"I've heard/read that when a turtle is on antibiotics they often lose their appetite. So I think this is rather common. You may want to do a search on the forum for other posts regarding antibiotic use. "

Edmund: I see. I hope that this is temporary. I know I sound very worried. This is because last time, I had a baby RES and for the first days it didn't eat, I assumed it just wasn't ready to eat. My ignorance probably caused its death. I don't know if it was just because it was already sick the moment I bought it or I could have done something earlier -- but I'm not taking any chances with my current RES I've been keeping for 7 months now. Yes, I'll do a search on antibiotics. I was given those by the vet and instructed to feed it, too. However, it consumed only once when the vet fed it -- also, by force. The vet had to "push" the RES to feed it in liquid form, too. The antiobiotics I have now are in tablet form, cut into small pieces.

"As Steve said, a RES must be in water to eat. I'm sure you can put the turtle in water for a few minutes daily so that it can eat. Maybe the vet not to keep it in water like it would normally be for most of the time, but just a few minutes daily to eat and get wet."

Edmund: Yes, I was told by the vet NOT to put it into the water. The scar is still there after the surgery excision. I was given the cream to apply on its scar (the side of the face where the abscess was). I do that from time to time. It was already difficult enough applying that since the RES would shrink back into the shell each I attempt to do so, or get frantic for that matter. Having said that, would it really be okay for it to enter the water even for a few minutes for feeding? The scar is still there, note.

"I do have a few comments on your setup but I have to ask if your answers are for your normal setup or for the temporary situation with your turtle being out of water?"

Edmund: Every answer of the above are permanent except:

How much water is in there?
A: No water in the tank at the moment on vet's advice. When I fill in again, it's usually about the tortoise's height (when crawling on belly).

"I do have to mention this though.. You don't even know what a UVB light is? You really should look up information on the basic care of an RES. They need UVB light in order to metabolize calcium which is needed for strong bones and shell."

Edmund: I know I sound ignorant, but this is my first time having a pet at home. I didn't even know I need to have UVB light for the RES. Should I go ahead and acquire one asap now?

"You also say your turtles have no basking area. How does it get out of the water to dry off. They MUST be allowed to get out of the water to totally dry off so that they don't get shell rot. This might be one of the reasons your turtle ended up with an ear abcess. I have other comments but I think this is long enough for now and I'm sure others will add to this ... Good luck with your turtle."

Edmund: I do wash the tank every day or once in 2 days. That is when they get off the tank. Sometimes, I do take them out to walk around. I don't if that is what really caused the ear abscess. This is because I have another RES (yes, I have 2 of them) which I bought on the same day. They both are living under the same conditions, in the same tank, eat same food, but this RES is the one having the above-mentioned problems whereas the other is perfectly fit.

What I am really worried now is that this RES is not eating for the last 2 days. I have some slight comfort, though, that before this happened, it was fed quite a lot. How long can a RES go without food?

The current situation now is that:
- The RES is in the tank with no water (as vet advised). He advised that it can go into water only 2 days later (which is tomorrow).
- It's not eating. This is what really bothers me now. It wont even take the antibiotics.
- It's living in the tank alone while the other healthy one is in another tank, to avoid any fights. It seems the other one is always picking on this one.

Edmund Loh

[steve]

OK, here are few questions:

How big is the turtle when you got it 7 months ago and how big is it now?
How big is the other turtle?

some suggestions:
I think you will need a bigger tank, much bigger. There is aggression in there and a small tank makes it worse. A bigger tank would help, but doesn't always resolve it.

If one turtle is having symptoms, then you need to keep them separate.

You need an easily accesible basking area where they can both completely dry off and bask undisturbed for hours.

You need a heat source (a normal light will work) to make the basking area 10 degrees F warmer than the water.

You need a UVB light source, unfiltered sunlight is great during warm days. In a tank, the UVb should be directly over the basking area.

If you are still concerned about putting him in water to eat, call and ask your vet if it is OK. I would also think it's OK if you got some clean, warm water and let him eat for a minute or 2.

I also strongly suggest that you invest in a filtration setup. It would require you to do fewer water changes and it should help maintain water quality.

[edmundloh]

Hi Steve,

"How big is the turtle when you got it 7 months ago and how big is it now?"

Edmund: 7 months ago, it was small, new-born like. I can't remember how small it exactly was, but imagine it's small enough for you to close your fists on. Now, it's estimated 15cm x 8cm.

"How big is the other turtle?"

Edmund: The other one is smaller. See the turtle on the left in cam722's avatar. It's about that size and shade as well.

"I think you will need a bigger tank, much bigger. There is aggression in there and a small tank makes it worse. A bigger tank would help, but doesn't always resolve it."

Edmund: I have already bought a bigger tank -- that should help.

"If one turtle is having symptoms, then you need to keep them separate."

Edmund: Already done that.

"You need an easily accesible basking area where they can both completely dry off and bask undisturbed for hours."

Edmund: I'd take it this can be found in the pet shop? I have a bag of pebbles and stones, does that help if I build a platform out of these?

"You need a heat source (a normal light will work) to make the basking area 10 degrees F warmer than the water."

Edmund: Or do I just put them in a bright area of the house? Or must it be directly under the normal light?

You need a UVB light source, unfiltered sunlight is great during warm days. In a tank, the UVb should be directly over the basking area.

Edmund: Uhm... now you say UVB light? Are UVB and normal light by any means same or different? Or in other words, a normal light bulb would do?

"If you are still concerned about putting him in water to eat, call and ask your vet if it is OK. I would also think it's OK if you got some clean, warm water and let him eat for a minute or 2."

Edmund: How warm should the water be? I'll contact the vet tomorrow. According to him the last time I met him, he said it should be okay to do so 2 days later (which is tomorrow, too).

"I also strongly suggest that you invest in a filtration setup. It would require you to do fewer water changes and it should help maintain water quality."

Edmund: Again, I think this can be obtained from the pet shop? Makes me wonder sometimes if they are the best examples as well, since their RESs are in tanks with conditions almost the same as mine.

Edmund Loh

[cam722]

Here are some links from the main webpage regarding some of the things that both steve and I have brought up regarding your setup...

UVB/UVA light sources..

http://www.redearslider.com/index_light ... l#overview

basking docks/platforms.. I'd also suggest you look in the Photo Gallery for examples of what others use for theirs.

http://www.redearslider.com/index_light ... .html#dock

As I stated before, an RES .. MUST be in water to be able to eat. They have no saliva and also have a fixed tongue and therefore can not eat outside of the water. If your vet told you not to even put him in water to feed him, I'd really have to question that vet on what he knows about turtles... especially an RES.

This is the basic new owner guide that steve has put as a downloadable file. Hopefully it will help to answer some other habitat questions you may have.

http://www.redearslider.com/res-guide.pdf

[steve]

15cm is nearly 6 inches... that is huge for a turtle less than a year old. How much are you feeding him?

You can buy most equipment online, bigalsonline.com, drsfostersmith.com

Also, the displays they have in petshops are not usually the ideal way keep turtles. If you truly want to keep your turtles in a healthy environment, please read Carol's links above.

[edmundloh]

Hi Steve,

Sorry. I took the measurement again. it's 11cmx7cm. I feed the turtles on a 2-3 hour basis.

I tried feeding the turtle in the water just now -- it still won't eat. Now, I am really getting worried. Would putting the basking and UVB really help its apetite?

Also, I dont really know how long a turtle can go on without food. It wont even consume the antibiotic. Other than applying the cream on the scar where the abscess used to be, I dont know what else to do.

Edmund Loh

[cam722]

Do you feed your turtle multiple times a day? A turtle the size of yours should probably only be eating every other day and that should be once every other day. Are you feeding them any other foods besides pellets?

I'd call the vet again and ask about your turtle not eating.

I'm curious as to where you live..

[edmundloh]

Hi Carol,

I am staying in Malaysia.

Yes, I feed multiple times a day. Every 2-4 hours. I feed a lot as they grow. The one with the abscess eats only pellets. The other one (which is healthy) eats anything imaginable, including my finger.

It's 9.45pm now and I'll have to call the vet again tomorrow on that. Really, I'm getting worried for the turtle now as it's been 3 days since it has stopped eating. Only a slight comfort that it ate quite alot right before I noticed it stopped.

Edmund Loh

[steve]

You are still excessively feeding your turtles. RES less than 1 year old should be fed an amount equal to their head once a day, RES older than one year should be fed that amount every other day. You should also feed vegetables (look for the feeding list) and your turtles will learn to accept them eventually.

[marisa]

Edmund--your RES (why did you refer to him as a tortoise?) should be put into clean water twice a day to get hydrated. The water doesn't need to be deep--just enough to cover the shell. One of those times he should get food to eat (he needs to eat in the water). Since there seems to be some concern over overfeeding, he doesn't have to eat every day, however. (You could try putting some veggies in with him when he's not getting pellets, though).

You live in Malaysia (nice country, BTW)--it's warm there, is it not? If you are able to take him outside for a few hours at a time. several times a week, he shouldn't really even need a UVB light. (The sun must be direct, not though glass, plastic or any other barrier.)

What kind of medication is he on?

[edmundloh]

"You are still excessively feeding your turtles. RES less than 1 year old should be fed an amount equal to their head once a day, RES older than one year should be fed that amount every other day. You should also feed vegetables (look for the feeding list) and your turtles will learn to accept them eventually."

Edmund: I didn't know that. When both the turtles were well, they always get frantic and greedy each time they see me approach the pellets and start scraping the tank wall. And the instructions said "feed every 2 hours". At least, I know they are hardy animals that can without food for some time. Phew! But I hope this don't go too long.

Marisa,

"Edmund--your RES (why did you refer to him as a tortoise?) should be put into clean water twice a day to get hydrated. The water doesn't need to be deep--just enough to cover the shell."

Edmund: We all call them tortoise here. Unless, the terms are different for different countries? That is what I'm doing with the "turtle" now, esp. the one that came back from the vet.

"One of those times he should get food to eat (he needs to eat in the water). Since there seems to be some concern over overfeeding, he doesn't have to eat every day, however. (You could try putting some veggies in with him when he's not getting pellets, though)."

Edmund: As mentioned earlier, my turtles usually get greedy and frantic each time they see me reaching out for their pellets. While granted, I was probably overfeeding them, I'm still concerned as to when will the next time the sick turtle be able to eat again. I'll be trying it again later.

"You live in Malaysia (nice country, BTW)--it's warm there, is it not? If you are able to take him outside for a few hours at a time. several times a week, he shouldn't really even need a UVB light. (The sun must be direct, not though glass, plastic or any other barrier.)"

Edmund: Yes, Malaysia is warm overall. But since I'm staying on high land, it can get colder in this particular part some times. The average temperature in Malaysia is 30-31 degree celcius (sometimes I get that kind of temperature here, too). But it can get cold here sometimes as low as 25 degree C. Good news is, it looks like it's warm lately here.

"What kind of medication is he on?"

Edmund: The cream for the abscess scar (which was removed) and antibiotics.

Edmund Loh