Urgent Care :: Swollen Eyes and treatment

[ozziworld]

Hello! Iam new to this forum and am hoping to find some solutions to my turtle's problem.

One of my RES has been basking more lately and strangely just plops his head down on the rock like he is dead. He is still eating well and actually can get quite hyper when handled.

He used to be very alert while basking and had clear eyes that were very alert.

I noticed some swelling around his eyes and also noted that they are kinda cloudy. More so on his left eye.

I have tried to upload some images that might help describe my turtle's condition.

I am not able to find cod liver oild that I was hoping to swab on his eyes. I am planning to add carrots to his diet as he primarily eats koi pellets and the ocassional guppy.

Since he is in an outdoor pond, I was thinking of isolating him during feeding time so he will not feed so much on the koi pellets. What other ways are there to introduce Vitamin A to his diet or more directly to his eyes.

I live in the Philippines and being a tropical country temperature is around 90 to 95 degrees year around

It would be very difficult to find a vet here that specializes in herpetolgy and I was hoping to find a remedy on this board that I might try first. Any advise would be so highly appreciated.

Below you will find information on the typical questions requested in this forum.

How big is your turtle? Around 6inches
How long have you had it? 7 years
What is the water temperature? Around 82 degress
Did you use a thermometer? Yes
How much water is in there? About 400 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? No
Are you using any filtration? outdoor filtration for Koi Pond
What is the basking temperature? Around 90 to 95 degrees
Is there a basking light? No, Outdoors
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Natural rock
Is there a UVB light? Natural sunlight
What have you been trying to feed it? Generally eats koi pellets and occasional guppy
When was the last time your turtle ate? Today. Appetite still good
How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 400 gallons
Is the tank near a window? Outdoor
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? No
Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes
Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms?

Sleeps on rock while basking. Just plops his head down with neck extended. Legs pulled in. looks dead but quite active when awakened. Scrambles back in water quickly. Noticed that eyes are swollen and cloudy. More so on left eye. He sleeps and basks more lately.

See posted pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ozziworld/2995274512/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ozziworld/2995274906/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ozziworld/2995275320/


Any advise would be much appreciated.

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[megcornell]

You're right the eyes do look a tad swollen. Since he's active normally, and the temps are good, it might just be a deficiency.

An important thing you need to start doing is adding vegetable matter to the diet to balance out his diet.

As for the immediate need for vitamin A, the cod liver oil really does wonders. Maybe you can find it in a supplement or health care store? Also, green leafy vegetables, carrot, and squash are good sources.

Here's a link to the nutrition section to give you an idea of healthy vegetables to add to the diet.
http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5

[ozziworld]

Are there signs of infection? I kept him dry since last night and did not observe any discharge.

When dry docking a RES, how often should he be temporarily reintroduced back into water? Do not want to dehydrate him.

My RES has gotten so used to koi pelets that it may not be that easy to introduce vegetables in his diet. the koi pellets seem well balanced as he has been on this diet for over 5 years. The other RES (have two others) are doing fine.

Also, the cod liver oil I found at a pharmacy is in gel capsule form. how do I add this to his diet? Was thinking of mashing the capsules and mixing it with his usual diet. Is there a chance can overdose on the cod-liver oil?

How about fresh fish liver? When cleaning freshly caught fish, I sometimes feeed some innards to the turtles and they love it. Is there a good amount of Vitamins A and D?

I will continue to look for cod liver oil in liquid form.

[Arisu]

What about some Zoo Med eye drops?

http://www.petco.com/product/12512/Zoo- ... =201372236

[steve]

Dry docking is fine for overnight periods. For the capsule, you can add it to the diet (by soaking the pellet) but you can also apply it to the eye. Overall, the diet issues really need to be addressed once this situation has cleared.

With only one eye affected, I wonder if it is an injury. Vit A will not help an eye injury and an infection would need a topical antibiotic.

[ozziworld]

Actually, I am doubtful if it is just a diet issue because I suppose the problems would have arisen awhile back. The other turtles are fine and are similarly used to the same diet. I hope to address both the diet issue as well as the potential for infection.

I will try to find zoo med drops locally but it does not look like it has any anti infective (antibiotic) properties. Is it generally just a tonic as opposed to an active anti biotic? I hope I can find Zoo Med as it seems puposely designed for this application. Doubt if it would be available here as turtles are generally not considered pets in the Philippines and I think it would not be commercially ciable for pet shops to carry such a product with a definite shelf life.

Kept him dry for last 8 hours then immeresed hikm in water for a few hours. The dry docking seems to help as his eyes look clearer. I will start on the cod liver oil tomorrow.

Thank you all for your advice.

[robind]

the zoomed eye drops are a saline solution with vitamins a and b12. They work pretty well, though I've never tried cod liver oil so I can't compare.

[marisa]

Although they do contain Vit. A, the Zoo-Med drops are more for irritated eyes. The cod liver oil is a much higher concentration of Vit A and would be used to help correct a Vit A deficiency. If you try the cod liver oil and the problem is due to a deficiency, you should see some improvement after several days of use. Don't overdo the cod liver oil. If there's no change, the problem is something else.

You mentioned both his eyes are somewhat swollen?

You can safely get Vit A into your turtle's system by feeding him foods that contain beta carotene, which your turtle will convert to Vit A as needed. Foods that are orange/red---pumpkin, squash, carrots, red peppers, cantelope, etc. are all good sources of beta carotene, as are dandelion greens.

[ozziworld]

Will the cod liver oil wash off if I put him back in the water? I was considering keeping him dry most of the time while being treated with the cod liver oil.

Do try to both feeding him the cod liver oil and applying it topically over his eyes? Would it be worth considering disolving the capsules in vegetable oil instead of water when I apply it over his eyes? Petroluen Jelly?

The dry docking seems to help and his eyes clear up somewhat with rediced puffiness. However when I put him back in the water it tends to swell up again. Could the recurring swelling have to do with water quality or is the lack of moisture when dry docked make the condition less dramatic.

I always feel more positive when I chack on him after he hasy been dry for a few hours. Then I always feel bad after he has been put back in the water.

Are there anti biotics that I should start trying to look for? I was not able to find any zoo med. Will start the cod liver oil today but was hoping to get some advice on application.

Thanks again to all who have taken an interest.

[steve]

After applying it, give it 15 minutes or more to soak in. I would apply it directly to the eyes for now and see if there is any change. You still do not know what is causing the problem, and vit a only addresses one potential cause.

[marisa]

You're only putting a very small amount on the eyelids. I don't see the point of dissolving the capsules in veg oil or petroleum jelly. Prick a capsule (if you get it in capsule form), squeeze some of the oil on a q-tip and gently wipe it on the eyelids.

If his eyes get worse when he's in the water, do check the water quality. What kind of filtration is being used in the pond ("outdoor filtration" doesn't tell me much)? Is the water being kept clean?

[ozziworld]

I test the water regularly and the tests read well for nitrates, nitrites and ammonia. The other turtles are fine and so are the koi. Am osidering a water change but that might shock the system and the 'good' bacteria in the filter.

The filter I use in the pond is a biological filter with pea gravel as s substrate for biologicals. It has been a well balanced established system for four years.

Is there a way to test for bacteria?

So I can or should keep him in the water after the treatment with cod liver oil over the eyes?

The oil goes directly over the eyes? Am afraid the swab might physically irritate his eye further. Perhaps drops?

[ozziworld]

I finally found a vet in the Philippines that has some experience with reptiles.

He did exactly as I have read in the various websites covering RI and eye infections in Turtles. Seems he had all the appropriate reference materials and medications.

Conceptually, afetr doing a fair amount of research I had a good idea that my turtle needed a shots of baytril for RI and Vit A for any possible Vitamin A deficiency. I also suspected that I should consider chloramphenicol drops or ointment on the eyes to cover any infections of the eyes.

As mush as I felt I had researched enough and actually felt knowldegable enough to treat my turtle, what I did not realize is that I did not know where to buy the meds and what doses to apply. Of course the shots were the surprise as I would assume (incorrectly ) that the shots would be administered in a fleshy muscle and I would have guessed near the tail.

The shots were administered near the base of the neck (both Vit A and baytril). I realized that the vet's knowledge is not simply picked upfrom the internet. Plus dosage information and application are not so readily available. This made me appreciate the vets inputs so much more.

I hope to see recovery progress more positively now that more aggressive and definitive steps have been taking to address the diagnosed health issues.

I will report back any progress I observe.

Thank you to all whi have taken an interest and made a contribution to this post.

[SpotsMama]

Thank you for the update. Please keep us posted as to progress.

Your vet probably mentioned it, but if the problems were RI and vitamin a deficiency, it's possible the other turtles will be similarly affected in time. RI is very contageous and I assume they've all been eating the same diet.

Making sure that foods containing vitamin a are readily available should help with the diet. Orange and yellow veggies are the usuall good sources, along with some dark green leafy veggies. Here are some examples:

Carrots
Sweet potato
Kale
Turnip Greens
Winter Squash
Red Bell Peppers
Pumpkin

My turtle is especially crazy about steamed sweet potato. Most turtles are. If you can get it where you are and your turtles are reluctant to eat some of the other veggies, you might try sweet potato as it's almost sure to be well received.

Here's a caution. Too much vitamin a is poisonous. If your turtles are eating food containing vitamin a, then they shouldn't also have cod liver oil soaked pellets or vitamin a shots. It should be either dietary or food supplement or a (very rare) shot, not all three.

[TupacTheTurle]

not to thread jack, but i have a hatchling that has swollen eyes....i put cod liver oil on them from the capsules, let it soak and he opened them slightly....but he still closes them when im around? i kinda just walked in when i was letting it soak and i saw they were open. is this normal?