Urgent Care :: baby res shell has changed dramatically in last 2weeks

[GabieB]

However illegal it is to sell baby turtles, they're still doing it. My daughter visited a mall with a friend and came home with one as a gift for her little brother. Couple hundred dollars later and I think we've got a habitat that will be OK for a few months at least. His/her name is Dolphin. Here's the list...

How big is your turtle? 1 1/2 inches
How long have you had it? 2 months
What is the water temperature? 78F
Did you use a thermometer? yes
Are you using a water heater? yes
How much water is in there? 6 gal, I know the tank needs to be larger.
Are you using a water conditioner? wasn't-at advice of pet store, but am now. There's lots of conflicting advice; how necessary is this really?
Are you using any filtration? yes, Fluvial 1, probably not enough, but have to get a bigger tank to fit the larger filters.
What is the basking temperature? 90F
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? the floating, store-bought "turtle landing"
Is there a UVB light? yes
What have you been trying to feed it? eats well, always acts starving-turtle bites pellets, freeze-dried shrimp & krill (sprinkled with calcium & vitamin suppliments), anacharis. Tried spinach and he liked it, but then found out it was not good for him, does not like collard greens.
When was the last time your turtle ate? I feed him every morning and night.
How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 10 gal glass
Is the tank near a window? no
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? living room-usually quiet during the day until kids get home
Have you read the Basic Care section? yes and many, many other websites
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes and found some similar cases, but still unsure

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? My concern is that his shell has changed drastically in the past 2 weeks. His bright patterns have almost completely disappeared, changed into dark grey blotches, a few areas along his backbone appear to be rubbing on something, and he has at least two tiny lighter-colored spots that do not look normal. At first, I was concerned about MBD, because his shell is soft near his tail, but have read that is normal for young turtles. I've removed a large rock from his tank that he might have been rubbing on. It's possible that the light spots could be air bubbles underneath a scale that is shedding, but can't say for sure. I'm thinking he probably has beginning shell rot. I've just added some cuttlebone to his tank and will start coating all of his food with the calcium powder. I've also added Reptomin sticks for variety. And am taking him to a vet on Monday. Can ya'll think of anything I'm missing? We really like this little guy/gal and want him to do well.

[megcornell]

Is he basking regularly and do the discolored areas smell at all?

[SpotsMama]

Can you post a photo of your turtle's shell when it is dry? This would be most helpful.

[GabieB]

yes he basks.
I don't think he smells.
I will try to post a photo tomorrow (my camera doesn't do close-up photos well).

[marisa]

Other than the two-small size, the habitat doesn't sound bad. From what you wrote about his diet, though, it sounds like he could be getting too much food and/or too much protein, which can lead to fast growth, which could lead to shell changes, including shedding. By chance is the seam (line in between the scutes) getting noticeably larger and darker?

How much food does he get at at a feeding?

How often do you change the water and clean the tank?

[GabieB]

yes the seam is larger and darker. I noticed the change, but didn't know if it was normal or not. He did shed all of his skin in the last 2 weeks.

I've tried to give him greenery first, then 5-6 pellets, than a sprinkling of either shrimp or krill last. He really likes the meat. Recently, realizing that I need to coat everything in calcium, I put a mixture of the usual pellets, reptomin sticks, and freeze-dried meats (shrimp, krill, mealworms) in a small bowl with the calcium and multivitamin powders. I've been shaking it up to coat everything before giving him about 3 sticks, 3 pellets, 3 shrimp, 3 mealworms, and however much krill gets in with the rest. It sounds like a lot, but we only leave him in his feeding bowl for about 10 minutes. He ate the anacharis like crazy last time, but now is just sitting on it.

I clean the tank and change the water completely every week/week & half. I'm still learning how to do this. Yesterday, I just brought the outside hose in to keep refilling the tank until the water is clean. Then I emptied it one last time and refilled with bottled spring water. Is this really necessary? Also, I've noticed that without his large rock he's struggling to get to the top of the water. I know he can swim well, but liked to climb on the rock to stick his head out. Should I lower the water level or put his rock back in?

This has gotten long, so I'm going to post a second time to add my photos.

[GabieB]

Here's the link to my photobucket album. Never used this before so not sure if it'll work.
http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb15/gabieb/?albumview=grid
80x80size is not one of the options available for resizing, so not sure what to do to post actual img. I'll try with one before/after and one habitat. I apologize if they are too big.
2 weeks ago
today full shell
today habitat

[megcornell]

He looks like he's growing much too fast to me. I think the dark areas are large seams between the scutes which indicates that the shell is growing too fast.
The diet you listed earlier is too high in protein which would account for the fast growth. The shrimp and meat and worms should be given as a rare treat not as a staple of the diet. The daily diet should consist of pellets and veggies. The anacharis you have is a great start for a healthy vegetable component. You can try adding a variety of things like leafy lettuces and dandelion greens. Look at the nutrition section for more ideas.

[GabieB]

OK-I've now read the posts from all of you listing regular diet examples and know what I've been doing wrong. Way too much protein and way too few veggies. Will correct this immediately. That was an excellent idea Steve.

I was trying to stick to one websites' suggested diet of 25% pellets, 25% protein, 25% green leafy veg, 25% other veg. Only we don't eat very many fresh veggies ourselves and he didn't seem to like the frozen (thawed) ones, so I let that one get by. Then he ate up all his anacharis and I didn't get back to the pet store to get more. Anyway, I really appreciate all of your advice and info. This is a great resource for anyone with turtles.

[marisa]

Yes, that seam is quite large (he is growing too fast), and if you're not careful, you're going to see those baby scutes sitting on top of new ones and wonder why they're not shedding...

I'd skip the mealworms altogether and give a cut-up earthworm as a treat instead (much healthier)---shrimp and krill as treats also, but krill is so high in protein that I'd give it sparingly when I gave it. Hatchlings are more attracted to animal protein than plant matter, however, plant matter is important and will become more so as he grows.

To me, it's not necessary to be so formulaic about how much of what type of food a turtle gets (25% this, 25% that, etc.) all the time. Many pellets are fairly high in protein, and it's good to keep that in mind in determining how much protein your turtle is getting in his diet. Variety is the key. I also don't think it's necessary to coat everything in calcium and vitamins for every feeding---sometimes too much is just as bad as too little.

To respond to your water question---you do not need to use bottled spring water. Tap water should be fine, but if your water is treated with chlorine or chloramine, use a dechlorinator like Reptisafe or Amquel (these come to mind, but there are others---just read the label to see that whatever you buy eliminates both, most do).

About the rock---you could put it back in, but to me, it would be taking up room in an already small tank. I'd try suctioning a plastic plant to the side of the tank (or bottom) to rest on and help him surface (if you think he needs it).

[GabieB]

What should I do if he does develop larger scutes under his baby ones? I've already adjusted his food to veggies (though he's not eating them) and 6 pellets/day. Does he need to go to the doc? I really can't afford it unless necessary.

[RunninWideOpen]

No, a vet can't treat it. The scutes will eventually shed off. To me, it doesn't look like any major damage was done. Now that you've corrected his diet, everything should even out naturally.

I would take those pebbles out of the bottom of the tank. Turtles do great with bare bottom tanks. The tank stays cleaner as well. When your turtle gets big enough that he could fit those in his mouth, he may try to eat them, which is quite hazardous.

[industrial_girl_2000]

Wow, look at that little guy grow! Looks like he is thriving. I agree with what others said here already, and it sounds like you have already started feeding him veggies which will be great for his health in the long run.

Keep in mind that turtles' shells are similar to a fingernail-style material, and that the shell grows in layers from the inside out. That's why the scutes are shed in layers. It's ok for them to shed the scutes & turtles shed throughout their entire lives, not just as they are growing. Once they are adults, they don't shed scutes as often, but they do shed them. It's just natural. I mean, the shell material doesn't last forever and like your skin, it will fall off over time revealing new/healthy layers underneath.

Just be patient.....a turtle's metabolism is VERY slow & it takes time for the shell to change over time.

[marisa]

If you've adjusted his diet and it's balanced, that's good. He will develop larger scutes under those baby ones (he already has, that's how they grow)---you just want him to shed the baby ones when the time comes.