Urgent Care :: Weakening Turtle!

[jen188]

I finally got the little guy to eat most of a baby-sized pellet this morning before I had turned the lights on (he was already in the water for the warmth I think; he always immediately goes for the dry basking area when I turn the lights on). However, that was the only pellet he would eat before ignoring the rest, while his companion ate voraciously like usual. On a side note, I've been debating whether the little guy has RI or Vit. A Deficiency, judging by the mildness of the eye condition, he doesn't seem to have swollen eyes to me. However, I do see a bit of white slightly red film on his eyes when is he is asleep, although I'm not sure if that is normal and I can't really compare because the big guy is so skittish and sensitive that he's always active whenever he spots people. Another thing I noticed about the little one's eyes is that slightly red, although I think they're starting to go away. Also, I didn't mention this earlier, but I have noticed the little guy occasionally rubs his head or eye, which is strange since I haven't done a water change recently. Another thing to note is that once when I last changed their tank water, I heard a couple of loud strange noises coming from the little mini tank I kept them in while I cleaned, I'm not sure whether he was sneezing or coughing or what frankly. I haven't heard the turtle making strange noises lately, so I hope there's no RI. I wanted to ask some more questions like:

1. If there's a way for my veggie-hating turtles to eat healthy veggies, or if I have to wait until they're older; I don't want the big guy to get the same problem, although I'm not sure why he hasn't gotten the same issues since he and the other turtle have lived in the same conditions since we got them?

2. Do you think it might be a good idea to coat food with cod liver oil for the big guy, since he refuses to eat veggies?

3. Should I leave the lights on at nighttime too for the little guy?

4. Are those round bumps at the edge of his eyes normal?

5. Out of curiosity, what veggies do your guys' turtles like?

Oh and to answer Kansasslider, the water temp is around mid-70's while the dock is around 10 degrees higher (maybe a bit more, my cheap thermometer isn't all that great, but my turtles don't seem to mind) and I doubt the heat is too much for them since I see the little guy retreat to the warmth of the water when it's nighttime and I turn off the lights.

[jen188]

Just a little update:

The little guy has eaten a few more pellets (although he spat out the shrimp ) and he seems to want to spend time in water now, even when I place him on the dock to bask. He seemed to be a bit more active too.

[steve]

Glad to see he's eating. Have you tried the cod liver oil? He might also have some shell issues, hard to know what it could be.

[Jeremiah]

Hi Jen,

If your turtles refuse vegetables at this age, then you do not need to force them. You also have the option of gradually offering vegetable-based commercial foods like algae wafers (be sure to break them into appropriate sizes) or Hikari Excel for Cichlids.

As long as your healthy turtle doesn't have swollen eyes, then I wouldn't bother with the oil. It has very highly concentrated Vitamin A, and it is possible to hurt the turtle via overdose. Again, it would be great if you could separate the turtles--at least until the little one acts normally again.

I don't recommend leaving the lights on all night. It confuses the turtles' biological clocks. A good option here is purchasing a ceramic heat emitter or an infrared heat bulb (the lattee is often a very subdued shade of red/bluish-black). These kinds of heat bulbs can accompany your visual UV during the day, in addition to providing extra "dark heat" in case your turtle wants to bask at night. Although night basking is still an abnormal behavior, so if that happens, then you definitely know something is wrong with the turtle's health.

[jen188]

Hi Everyone,

First of all, thanks so much for all the tips and help ! The little guy seems to be making a full recovery; within about a week of installing the lights, he's returned mostly to his active begging and now gets to regularly bask and I plan on trying to see if I can get both of my turtles to eat some veggie-based fish foods to help with his eyes. One thing I did notice is that while he does swim around the tank, sometimes it seems like he doesn't quite have enough strength to reach the top (on his first try at least; sometimes I just put the little guy on the water-submerged part of his dock), while my other turtle (who is a bit bigger) has no problem with the water level. Thanks again for all the help !

[steve]

Glad to hear about the recovery. Keep a close eye on the swimming, it should get better as he gets stronger.

[Kansasslider]

Good to hear your turtle is doing better.

[jen188]

Hey guys,

Here's an update on my turtle (now dubbed Mulan by my sister because he apparently likes to stare at his reflection ):

He was eating for about a week before he stopped a couple of days ago. When he was eating, he didn't have the same appetite as he used to (a couple pellets at most, apparently dislikes shrimp now), before he suddenly stopped eating. He always spend the majority of his time basking on his rock, and seems somewhat lethargic, but still moves around (usually when his bigger companion sees no one else around and decides to bask then).

I've checked for signs of RI and the only symptoms I can list for him are:
Somewhat labored breathing occasionally (his neck cranes out and he opens his mouth for air),
He now refuses any food I offer him, although I've got some Anacharis to see if he'll eat that,
Around 3 weeks back, I heard him sneeze/cough when I would clean his tank, but I think that was only because of the tank temperature, which has increased since I installed the lamps. Otherwise, he doesn't cough or sneeze anymore,
No mucus around the mouth or nose, and no swollen eyes either.

I researched around for any home remedies I could try, since Mulan's symptoms seem very minor and I could never get my parents to take him to a vet and there aren't many herp vets, much less herp vets for aquatic turtles in my area. The main medicine I see for treatment of RI is baytril. However, I am not sure where to buy baytril and what dosage I'd need my little guy, especially since he's a baby (1 1/2 inches). I'm not sure whether it would be appropriate, given he's showing only a few of the symptoms.

P.S. Are there alternatives to Baytril? I've heard that once a turtle tries it, they hate it and it's hard to give them another dose. Also, my bigger turtle is 2 inches, and I think he's about to start shedding his skin normally and recently his scutes. Any specific food recommendations to encourage scutes to fall off?

I've also got a video link of the little guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjCIgwSTpc&list=UU2pc_KMWDqOLBXK-IkeRDSw

[steve]

I'm not sure of any OTC alternatives to Baytril. Is he making any croaking noises? It looked like his throat expanded a few times. Separation is highly recommended as well. Bump up the temperatures a little too. Go re-read any of the food enticing suggestions. I'd also consider an unflavored pedialyte/water soak.

[jen188]

I'm not sure of any OTC alternatives to Baytril. Is he making any croaking noises? It looked like his throat expanded a few times. Separation is highly recommended as well. Bump up the temperatures a little too. Go re-read any of the food enticing suggestions. I'd also consider an unflavored pedialyte/water soak.

He hasn't made any coughing or croaking noises for these last few weeks, he just open mouth breathes and basks on his rock whenever I turn on the basking lights. Another thing to note I noticed he is getting lighter and perhaps a bit dehydrated from not eating. I may try and soak him in a pedialyte water soak, only I want to check around if there are better homemade pedialyte recipes besides 50 gatorade/50 water. Also, I wanted to ask if the pedialyte soak would be effective for him because he refuses he won't eat anything I offer him, much less possibly drink the pedialyte (I might just try some worms from the pet store later, if he doesn't respond to the soak). One more thing, you keep mentioning to raise the air temperatures, but I'm not sure how to change the temps my water heat is set at (I have a Tetra 26445 Aquatic Reptile Heater, 100 Watt). I think I may dry dock him; if I do, should I move the lamps to him or just leave it with towels and such?

On another note, while I haven't separated the two turtles for the entire sickness ordeal, my bigger turtle has been acting perfectly normal and has grown to 2 inches, is shedding big time, and may be starting to shed his scutes. Yet, the big guy has no symptoms, unlike my poor little turtle, despite being in the same tank, which makes me somewhat doubtful if this is RI.

[steve]

Why Gatorade? Pedialyte is not hard to find. I'd also crumble up some pellets in there, he might ingest some while drinking.

[jen188]

My concern is that the little guy may not even open his mouth to drink the pedialyte solution, unless the solution soaking his skin is still good for him.

Otherwise, I'll get him dry docked with his heat lamp keep him warm. How long should soak him? Also, would it be a good idea to have him dry docked all day with his basking lamp and let him soak in the pedialyte for 15 minutes and set him in water to do his business for 1 hour?

[jen188]

Update:
I've been doing some research on ways to treat my turtle and I have cross checked his symptoms and I'm beginning to wonder if he might have an eye issue, which may be why he refuses to eat. Although it doesn't exactly explain why he suddenly started eating and then stopped last week. The poor little guy is losing weight and I think he's a bit dehydrated, so I'm going to try a Pedialyte soak and hope he drinks it.

[steve]

If they can't see, they usually won't eat. It's unfortunate because it makes caring for a sick turtle more difficult. Did you try the cod liver oil? Is it warm outside where you are? Sunlight usually helps a bit. What kind of lighting does he have now?

[jen188]

I've decided to quarantine the little turtle by dry docking him in a rubbermaid tub and I'm using their basking lights to keep him warm in one of the warmer rooms of my house, since I don't have a heat pad. I tried to buy some Pedialyte from Walmart, however, I couldn't find any in the medicine or drinks area. I may just buy some orange juice and try out one of the common recipes for making Pedialyte myself. Anyway, the little guy has yet to eat yet, but I still place him in the water dish for 30 minutes to an hour every day. He seems to be doing less open mouth breathing than when he was at the tank. I've checked his eyes and behavior, and I think I was wrong when I thought there was something wrong with his eyes; they seem normal when closed, aside from a white line on the eyelids, although I think that may be because he's been basking so often lately. Otherwise, it's so cold where I live, the poor guy probably wouldn't benefit from being outside, even if the sun's out. Also, today, I checked his quarantine area and I found some dark thing that I later recognized as poop. Is it normal for a turtle that hasn't eaten for a bit over a week to still be able to defecate (albeit, it did not look like normal turtle poop). Do you know how long I should quarantine him like this? He kept moving away from the basking light, but eventually settled down. He is also prone to hiding under the towel I placed at the bottom of the tub.

On another note, I just wanted to say Happy New Years and that I really appreciate you responding to my posts around the holidays.