Urgent Care :: Help! Pink Shell and Red Filter Foam?

[SpotsMama]

Well, you can it and see what happens but don't wait too long before trying the more aggressive approach. Shell infections can be very stubborn - once they have penetrated the surface of the shell they are hard to get at.

The best antiseptic wash is something called Nolvasan (or chlorhexadine). Hibiclense is a hand wash for people that contains the same ingrediant and can be used. Nolvasan doesn't require a prescription. You get it at veterinary supply places. Hibiclense you can find at places like Walgreen's. The advantage of chlorhexadine based washes is that they are very gently to living tissue thus speeding healing. Iodine based washes (like Betadine, for example) are also effective. Iodine is harsher to living tissue so a wound may not heal as fast as with Nolvasan but it should heal eventually.

On the salve, silver sulfadiazine (Silvadene or SSD cream) is something of a miracle drug. It's very effective. You can try the over-the-counter salves but if you don't think they are helping, go ahead and see if you can get some of the other from your vet.

The benefit of letting the turtle stay dry for long periods (dry docking) is that the bacteria and fungus that cause shell rot thrive in moist conditions. Dry conditions will help kill them off. When I had to dry dock Spot, I got a large (50 gallon) rubbermaid tub with a lid from Lowes - cost me $18. I kept him in it with some towels on the bottom to make it soft and kept the lid on so it was dark and he would sleep. I put a little dish of water in there in case he got thirsty but am not sure it was necessary. The rubbermaids come with "air holes" so that wasn't a concern. You could do something like this though the temperature fluctuations are a concern. How cold does it get during the day? Could you keep him in a small enclosed room like the bathroom where temps are more stable?

[FattyTheTurtle]

The bathroom has a heat pipe in it also, so it may fluctuate as well. Not sure how cold it gets technically, probably in the 60s to low 70s? I find myself in a blanket sometimes when home during the day.

What I think I can do is rinse the plastron with hibiclense (diluted?) tonight, touch the spot and see if anything would scrape off easily, then re-rinse with hibiclense, put some triple antibiotic or bacitracin on it, and leave him dry for a few hours this evening - I think I can rig some kind of set up to keep him warm while I am home. I'll clean the water while he is out being dry, and then let him back in...

If I do this for a day or two and it looks worse or not any better then will move to vet... does that sound reasonably safe?

[SpotsMama]

Sounds good. Why don't you give it longer before deciding to go to the vet. Like it said above, shell problems are very slow to change. Of course, if you can see it's getting worse, then you need to go ahead and go.

[FattyTheTurtle]

good call - i will give it a couple of days (unless it gets worse).

Would you dilute the hibiclense or put it on as is?

Also, is now the time to introduce cuttlebone given that we need to keep his water as clean as possible?

thank you so, so much for all the help! am looking forward to seeing his nice happy shell again.

[SpotsMama]

On the Hibiclense, the rule of thumb is to dilute it 50% with water.

On cuttlebone, anytime is a good time to introduce it. It won't foul the water. Pry off the hard backing and break it into pieces and put a few iin the water. It may take awhile for your turtle to figure out how good it is, but eventually he'll come around.

[marisa]

Either one would probably work. Personally, I prefer Nolvasan to betadine/povidone iodine (it's not as harsh and promotes the growth of healthy tissue).

Try to figure out what caused the problem.

[FattyTheTurtle]

So we just did our first treatment -

We took him out of his tank and put him in an open box for about half an hour so he could dry out. When we picked him up to check out his shell, pieces of his plastron were peeling off.. We cleaned it and scraped gently with a knife (he was a very good boy throughout all this, didn't make a peep). Then we cleaned again (some more parts came off), and put triple antibiotic.

He's now back in the box and we're debating putting him back in his water tonight or not? When we touched his shell, the exposed area was softer than shell, but not squishy. In the picture I am going to try to post below, you can see in the middle of his shell over to the right, its a little more brown...

I wanted to post the picture to see what you all thought - time for a vet or continue this treatment for a few days? This picture is post-scraping and cleaning. Also, if we do dry dock him, it is now 75 degrees in the room he is in now, and it has no windows... is that warm enough to keep him in?

i apologize if this picture comes out huge!

in response to marisa (i think) - we think what caused it was poor water quality. it had been several weeks since had done a major water cleaning, and a few weeks since the filter had been cleaned. i know this is horrible! i think we overestimated the power of the filter. we try to scoop up his poop as soon as we see it but i am sure some gets left behind. i just checked his filter foam, which we had changed saturday night, it is now a little grayish (pretty standard i think) but not pink/red, so that's a good sign i think?


http://lh4.google.com/alexandra.d.delvalle/R_rHhTqITmI/AAAAAAAABuQ/BA9zARYcQVU/IMG_1527.JPG[/img]

[SpotsMama]

On water quality, the very best way to be sure it's good is to test it. You can get kits in the fish section of the pet store that are very good. I like the ones from Aquarium Pharmeceuticals. There's one called the Master Freshwater Test Kit that includes supplies for 4 tests - ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Those are the main things you need to test for. The instructions with the kit tell how to do the test and how to interpret the results. The kit has enough supplies so you can test pretty often for probably a year before it runs low.

However, a few weeks in bad water probably didn't cause the problem (though it didn't help for sure). These things usually take longer to develop. Perhaps the overall water quality has been poor for longer than you're aware. Water quality can be poor even when the water looks clear because the worst stuff - ammonia and nitrite - is invisible. The only way to tell for sure that the quality is good is, like I said above, do some testing.

In general, if the filter isn't strong enough and the tank is too small, then it's very difficult to keep water quality up to par - you wind up changing the water all the time. Your tank is a good size for your turtle but perhaps the filter needs to be upgraded. I'm not familiar with your filter - maybe someone else knows if it's adequate or not. Or maybe the water needs more frequent changing.

I'm suspicious of the basking situation. If the problem is all on his plastron - and not on his carapace - then it may be that he's not drying off properly when he basks. It's essential that he get to dry off frequently and completely - top and bottom - or these infections will occur. If a turtle is too large or heavy for his basking platform, it may sink under his weight so it's partly underwater when he basks, and thus he never really dries completely.

By the way, you are to be commended for acting quickly to try to fix the problem. With aggressive treatment, these problems usually turn out fine.

[FattyTheTurtle]

Spotsmama, his basking platform is the same as the one in your picture! I didn't even realize it before. So he is able to dry off completely when he is on that tippity top part of the ramp because it is a couple of inches above the ground.

We did buy that testing kit actually, last night, were thinking of returning for a cheaper model but it's good to hear you recommend it.

His filter is an Aquaclear 50, his tank is 55 gallon, so it's plenty big for just him, I think...

and by the way, he is loving his new cuttlebone!

We put him back in his water over night, and his poop is very small and has a little white tail at the end of it? almost like a bean sprout?? The apartment is chilly right now (70 degrees), so I don't want to dry dock him yet.... so I can/should hold off a little more before vet?

I definetely think we need to change the water much more often.

[SpotsMama]

On the poop, you'd better collect a fresh sample and take it to a vet and get it checked for internal parasites. They are pretty common in turtles. A check for parasites should be an easy thing for a vet to do and shouldn't cost you much. Hopefully the vet will do the check without your actually having to bring your turtle in.

Since the basking situation sounds good (I assume he basks for hours a day so he's able to get good and dry) so maybe the root problem is, like you said, water quality.

On dry docking, keep him dry and out of the water when you can. It's very good for a shell that's trying to fight off an infection. You'll have to use your judgement as to when it's a good idea and when it's not.

By the way, when you test the water for ammonia and nitrites, what do you get?

[marisa]

Fattyturtle, by way of comparison, I use an Aquaclear 50 on a 10-gallon tank (with modifications to quiet the noise), and don't think it's adequate for a larger tank than that... On a 55-gallon, if I were to use an Aquaclear, it would be the 110 (I'm actually using one now on a 40-gallon stock tank).

As for the tiny "sprout" you see at the end of the poop, my RES has also produced this (almost as if the poop were encapsulated in a thin casing), and it has depended, I think, on what he's been fed more than anything.

I think the reddish debris on the sponge is due more to the water quality.

[FattyTheTurtle]

Marisa, is that even if the tank is not full? It's just a little over half full, maybe 30 gallons or so... we've been wondering how to modify with the noise, the water runoff is quite loud.

The sprout was kind of long, maybe an inch or two... if I see it again I will be sure to save it as a sample.

I think we will test the water for ammonia and nitrites tonight and I will post the results...

[marisa]

Yes, even for a tank that's not full. What I did was attach a piece of plexi glass to the lip where the water runs out (using aquarium silicone). You cut the length of the plexiglass to a length where it would reach the water so it doesn't drop far (or goes right into the tank), which really lessens the noise. If you've got only a little more than half a tank of water, I'd raise it. The piece of plexiglass needed would be shorter. But, an Aquaclear 50 is still inadequate for a 55-gallon tank.

While you're testing, it would be good to test for nitrates as well.

[FattyTheTurtle]

thanks marisa - we will think about upgrading the filter.

so leonard (fatty's technical name) has been dry docked all night, and we are going to try to keep him out pretty much all day (with an hour or so in water)... he slept under a towel in a box last night, with a folded flannel sheet over the box, i hope it was warm enough for him... its okay to keep him in the dark for several hours while dry docked?

any idea on how many days we should keep repeating the cleaning and scraping off? it looks like while the plastron is not getting worse per se, there will be more to scrape off over the next day or two, and there is one piece of the underside of his carapace that looks like it wants to come off, but that could be normal shedding maybe? i am thinking of making a vet appt for saturday....

also, didnt get to test water last night, will do it tonight and will check for those three things...

thanks!

[FattyTheTurtle]

Hi everyone,

We took Fatty to the vet today, and were given Nolvasan and silver sulfadiazine. We just tried to treat him but he had a very bad reaction to the Nolvasan (scrubbing with extra soft toothbrush) - am not sure if some got in his eyes, skin or mouth, but he started kicking and arching his neck and head all the way back - we ran him under some water asap and put him back in tank, but he's swimming a little like he's drunk, running into the filter tube, etc... it's getting better slowly but he is still a bit frantic, swimming in patterns...

Has this happened to anyone else, and should we be very concerned? He was totally fine with dilited Hibiclense, although that was just with a Q-tip.

He may have just had a very stressful day with the vet and all, but am worried... we're taking him out in a few to put the cream on him and hopefully he won't freak out again...

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.