Urgent Care :: help with turtle setup and maybe dead turtle

[crazyturtle]

I have a big problem... this is the second turtle that has died on me in the same way and I just don't understand how it happens...

How big is your turtle? 1inch
How long have you had it? 4 days

What is the water temperature? 80f
Are you using a water heater? yes stealth
How much water is in there? 15gal
Are you using a water conditioner? reptisafe and turtle clean
Are you using any filtration? yes xp2

What is the basking temperature? 88-92
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? zoomed
Is there a UVB light? reptisun 10.0

What have you been trying to feed it? reptimin
When was the last time your turtle ate? 3 days ago

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 20 gal
Is the tank near a window? yes but off to the side
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? not really

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms?

Ok here is the deal I bought a turtle from china town and had him a about a month when all of the sudden he started acting weird he stopped eating and was sleeping alot.... then he died out of nowhere... I thought it was kind of strange because he didn't show any symptoms other then closed eyes and sitting in one spot just thought he had a eye infection... so after he died I cleaned out the entire tank with diluted bleach and washed everything real good... I went out and bought another turtle turtle about 4 days ago.. he was a lively little one from the moment I bought him and even ate food on the first day I bought him was jumping around and everything.... then the very next day he started acting all weird like my last turtle.... on the second day he stayed in the brush leaves all day and slept most of the day but was still alert... on the third day he was sleeping all day in the same spot and wasn't being as alert but still opening his eyes when I knoked on the glass... but his morning I found him floating in the water and not moving at all.. I took him out and he hasn't responded at all I put turtle eye drops on him and dry docked him but I think he is dead....

I don't understand why I have had two turtles dye the same way... I'm thinking it may be the lighting but why would that kill them wouldn't that just cause them to close there eyes.. now I am thinking the water is too warm.. I have a stick on temp for the water and it says 80 but it could be wrong but it is on the other side of the tank from where the heater is.. I just don't get it..

the turtles showed no signs of of anyting other then not eating and sleeping... what could it be.. I believe I have the proper setup

[industrial_girl_2000]

crazyturtle, I don't think it was necessarily your set up because I read it thru twice & it sounds like all the essentials were there! I honestly think your turtles were sick before you got them, even the one that was eating the first day. Turtles are great at masking illness & some will continue to eat for a while when they are sick and then all of a sudden stop.

I think you need to stop getting turts at Chinatown because I have heard reports from other people on this board that they don't take very good care of their turtles. I don't know where you are located, but when you do go to get another turt, make sure that the set up in the store has all the elements that a healthy turtle would need (clean water, heated water, a way to get out of the water, and basking light). Also make sure they are not overcrowded in the tank. If any of these items are missing, DO NOT BUY, no matter how "good the turtles look".

One thing I always look for in a baby turtle is that he/she has "grown a little bit" already. If you look at my "latest pictures of Siobhan" thread in the photo section, look at the picture of him in my hand where you can see his shell. You can see that inbetween the scutes there is healthy shell growth there. That is a sign that he has been eating really well. It is exactly that type of growth that I looked for when helped mkoby pick out her little "Rascal the piglet" before Christmas too. Eating/growing in between the scutes is a good sign of a healthy hatchling turtle.

Again, I don't think it was your set up because it sounds like you put in a very well-thought out effort in giving the turtle everything he needed.

[crazyturtle]

as much as I would like to believe it wasn't my setup I think it is somehow.. yes I did put a lot of thought into everything I got but both turtles died in the exact same manner... not to mention this new turtle which I still have but am pretty sure he is dead by now didn't come from china town.. my friend gave me him.. yes I wrote bought in my first post it was an error of fast typing.. he had four turtles for at least 6 months.. and then I take one off his hands and he dies in four days the exact same way my other turtle went (oh how will I tell him) ... I'm really thinking it might have been the reptisun 10.0(not compact bulb) or the water temp.. maybe there is something in the water... are there any kind of tests I can do for the water... the water is crystal clear and the guppies and ghost shrimp have been living there for a week before I got the new turtle... I just don't know and am really scared to get another turtle...

[industrial_girl_2000]

Did your friend notice anything strange about this turtle before he gave him to you?

Again, turts are very good at masking illness. What was your friend's setup like? Did he have all the things you did for your set up? If he had 4 turtles, his setup must have been really large. Is there any gravel in your friend's setup? I'm not blaming your friend for anything by asking these questions. I'm just trying to help you determine why he died.

[marisa]

How long did your friend have the turtle before you got him? Where did your friend get the turtle? How are your friend's other turtles doing?

You could test for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, ph (but RES can tolerate a fairly wide range), but it doesn't sound like those would be off with what you've got (an XP2 in a 15-gallon tank? What kind of current does it make?).

[crazyturtle]

well compared to my setup my friends was crap.. he bought the turtles from chinatown about 6 months ago and has had them in a 10 gallon tank with a lot of large gravel and plants... I was at his house and actually talked him into getting a bigger tank I helped him set up a 20gal tank and since I didn't have a turtle anymore I talked him into giving me one of his.. and of course his turtles in his setup are still alive and the one I took died... it must be my fought... and I will say it again it can't be a coincidence that my other turtle died the same way... I'm looking at my setup right now and it is a great setup so maybe it was the UVB light. I just came back from the store.. I bought a ammonia tester for the water.. hold on let me test.... according to the liveNH3 I don't even have a spec of ammonia...

I know after reading this your going to say it was my friends poor conditions that let to this and I agree they are poor condition and still are even after I gave him my old filter he won't get rid of the rocks but his turtles are still doing fine.. they are eating and everything while the turtle that i took died in four days the same way my other turtle died.. it has to be my setup or something about it... I still haven't told him the turtle died I don't know what to say...

marisa I have a xp2 in a 20 gal long tank with 15gal of water.. the current is almost non existent for I faced the output towards the glass

[crazyturtle]

just I thought but.... I have a floating live bamboo stick int the water.. both turtles were nibbling on the roots and leaves.. could bamboo be bad for them and cause this.. kind of a jump but exploring all theories right now

another thing if I ever figure this out and feel confident enough to get another turtle I was thinking turtlesale [not reputable].com or turtlepimp.com but turtlepimp is out of stock of everything.. what do you guys think...

[SpotsMama]

If your friend had had the turtle for 6 months but it was only 1" long then I'd say something was wrong before you got him. He should have grown some in 6 months. Was he the smallest of the four or were they all still tiny?

Can you post a photo of your setup?

[crazyturtle]

actually he was the smallest I picked him based on being the smallest.. but why would he die right after I took him.. no camera to post... but it is a very clean looking setup... I have jungle plant off the right and few fake plants here and there a turtle dock and a combo cover two heat lamps and one long forecent bulb in one..

[SpotsMama]

The move from one habitat to another - even if it's a big upgrade - would be stressful. That might be what tipped the scales for a little turtle that was already ill but not yet showing it.

Usually a turtle in a new setup shows signs of stress - hides a lot, runs away when someone comes near the tank, acts nervous, may not eat. But if the habitat is good - and the turtle is healthy - he'll get past that initial stress and be ok.

Was he having any trouble breathing that you noticed?

You mentioned your friend's tank had gravel in it. That can be very dangerous. If a turtle eats it the gravel can get stuck in their digestive system and kill them.

You said the water temperature on the side of the tank opposite the heat was 80 degrees? That is pretty high but would be ok for a sick turtle. What's the temp closer to the heater?

[crazyturtle]

the turtle had no problem breathing.. the very first day I put him in he was active chasing the fish and shrimp around the tank i even put some pellets in and he ate a few it wasn't untill the next day he started showing signs..... the only thing was he wasn't moving much and sleeping all the time and with each day it got worse till this morning I woke up to him floating around the tank dead... the gravel was too big for the turtle to eat for it was bigger then his head... my temp monitor is on the other side of the tank from where the heater is.. and I tested it by using my digital temp for air monitoring and it said it was off by two degreess.. so the tank water was actually 82 not 80 degress...

[SpotsMama]

You mentioned bamboo in the water. I suppose you mean "lucky bamboo", that curly kind that doesn't need soil - just water? If so, then the websites I found say it isn't toxic to fish, so I suppose it would be ok for turtles to eat. HOWEVER, it sometimes comes in a gel (jelly water) that absorbs water that I would think would be quite toxic.

http://www.espritdeisle.com/faqs-and-facts-page-2.htm

Regular bamboo can be toxic depending on the species and what medium it's been grown in. It's not usually toxic (I love to eat bamboo shoots) but it can be.

[crazyturtle]

i bought this bamboo at the fish store they had it floating in a fish tank with a bunch of goldfish in it so I'm thinking not the toxic kind... but thanks man... I'm really thankful for your help on this.. I know I will most likely never get to the bottom of this and i appreciate all the info your throwing at me for it is helping me rule stuff out I want to get another turtle but now I am scarred too...

[SpotsMama]

I agree with what the others have said - it really sounds like you've done a thorough and thoughtful job of preparing a habitat for your turtle but you (and your turtles) have just had the most rotten luck. What don't you read up on another thread here (I'll edit in a link) on how to pick a healthy turtle and consider trying it again? There are so many beautiful RES out there that need a good home and you are really motivated so it would be a shame for you not to have a turtle.

Here's a good link:

http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7516

It seems that the smaller the turtles are the more fragile they are. Also, try to get one from a healthy habitat. Sometimes peope get turtles from bad habitats and they thrive...but I think they are the exception.

Good luck!

[industrial_girl_2000]

Your friend had the one turtle (that he gave you) for 6 months and the baby was STILL ONLY 1 inch long???? That's REALLY strange. I have had my hatchling for 2 weeks and he has already shown *visible* signs of growth. He's definitely NOT even 6 months old yet, but is already 1 1/2 inches long (!).

82 degree water is NOT hot enough to kill a turtle. There were times when my heater was up to 84 degrees in Sheba's tank (I was having trouble with my heater at the time) and she is still fine.

No, there was definitely something else going on here and I can guarantee it wasn't your tank setup. I know you said the gravel was bigger than the turtle's head, but unfortunately gravel has many small pieces in it that can easily be ingested especially if the turtles start digging around in it. They will dig until they find a piece to eat (and they have all day; there is a lot of trouble a turtle can get into in the 8 hours we are away from home!).

You also don't know if this turtle was ever dropped....he may have also had internal injuries leading to his death.

I really do wish you the best of luck. You sound like a very caring person! If you lived in the Detroit area, I would meet up with you at a petstore and help you pick a healthy baby (I did this for another poster on this board before Christmas).