Urgent Care :: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:05 pm   Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

I've tried to include as much information as I can below. I'm really getting worried about my little guy. He's just not himself at all and I don't know what else I can do for him.

How big is your turtle? about 3-4 inches
How long have you had it? since he hatched

What is the water temperature? currently 80-82 -- have tried 74-76 range but he got lathargic until I warmed back to 80. He seems to like it a little to the warm side.

Did you use a thermometer? Yes. Have 3 strip thermos on 3 sides of tank.

Are you using a water heater? Yes. Just purchased a new one yesterday. Old one wasn't reliable and started shedding the coating on it. I'm afraid Turt may have ingested some of it. Not sure.

How much water is in there? estimated 17 gals maybe as much as 20.
Are you using a water conditioner? Yes - Zoomed Reptisafe treat water after each tank cleaning and anytime significant amt of new water is added
Are you using any filtration? Yes...Tetra Whisper filter in tank. Filter is for 40-60 gal tank.

What is the basking temperature? Not sure how to measure this. I know it is warmer than the water and he loves to bask, especially since I moved the light to the proper 10 inches from his basking rock.
Is there a basking light? Yes. Currently Using a ZooMed Reptile Bulb 75 Watt. Supposed to have UVA.
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes as long as I keep the water level up on the rock.
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Big stone I got from a rock wall in front of my house.
Is there a UVB light? HAD a Zilla Reptile bulb in the tank hood, but it quit working, so now back to using a regular Fish tank bulb of unknown brand that came with the tank. Previous owner had fish, so not sure of the UV content. This has been of large debate with my husband who believes any flourescent bulb will do for a UV bulb to give the turt what he needs. I plan to sneak a ReptiSun bulb in there when I get a chance. I know the current bulb is more than 6 months old so it needs changed anyway. GRRRR.....

What have you been trying to feed it? Pellets which he has refused his entire life but still offering them, have tried Reptomin and Zoomed so far but never any interest at all. Krill, Shrimp, Fluker's Meelworms, live cave crickets when they show up in the house. (We yell "TURTLE FOOD!" and toss it in the tank.) He used to LOVE these. An occasional grass spider if caught in the house, tried offering Clam Turtle Chasers Treats. He won't show interest in anything at all right now. He used to eat 3 craisins every other day. Are cranberries ok for turtles? Turt loves them, or used to until last 2 weeks. Haven't seen them listed as good or bad in any of the lists. I've also offered him clover at the suggestion of other RES owners, but he's never shown any interest. I figured this was just due to his age mainly.

When was the last time your turtle ate? about 2 weeks ago.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 29 gallon tank
Is the tank near a window? Yes, sits next to window but not in front of it.
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Yes - Living Room

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes, several times over.
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes! Everything says turtle is cold, but he is NOT too cold. Water is 80-82F

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? See below.

Little Turtimus Prime is about 16 months old. He use to come to the side of the tank and beg everyday at feeding time and would always swim up when I walked to the tank. If anyone else walked up, he'd scramble behind his rock and hide. He would eat from my fingers unless he was mad at me for some reason. Now he won't move from whatever spot he's chosen. Sometimes he will bask, but not much. He is keeping his eyes closed all the time now as well. He has no visible symptoms as far as spots or discoloring of his shell or limbs. His face seems a little on the pale side, but otherwise, his coloring is the most brilliant it's been since he was hatched. He has gone from lethargic to just plain immobile today. I tried taking him outside and letting him sit in the sunlight for awhile yesterday. When I went to pick him up, he looked up at me and when a grasshopper landed in his tub, he moved toward it then just turned away and came to the edge of the tub for me to pick him up. Normally, he would vigorously attack any grasshopper in his water. I've been concerned about his sudden loss of appetite for days now, and we've watched his behavior steadily slow to a crawl. My husband doesn't want me to take him to the vet because he just picked him up near the pond where he works. To him, he's just a turtle and he doesn't want to spend a lot of money on vet care when he can always just grab another one. I've become quite attached to the little guy and want to do anything I can to save him.

I have recently changed his water and treated it with Reptisafe as usual. It seemed to have a frothy section at one end of the tank, so I removed Turt and changed the water again and re-treated it with Reptisafe. He was rubbing his eyes a lot, but now he just keeps them closed all the time. The frothiness in that portion of the tank is gone, but Turt still is weak and sickly. I've read post after post trying to find anything at all to help, but only find suggestions on water temps to warm things up. At the last tank cleaning about a week ago, I pulled out any gravel that was remotely close to the size of his head or smaller and tossed it in the driveway. No signs of him pooping any rocks, but then I've never really noticed him pooping much of anything else either. How big should his poop be? I'm sure he does as the tank gets pretty nasty if not cleaned at least once a month with partial changes in between. I've been removing uneaten food after a few hours. I've tried feeding both in and out of the tank. Any ideas on what could be happening here? Thanks for your help and sorry if this has been answered before. I've tried finding an answer before posting, but didn't see anything that fit my situation. Oh and we don't have a herp vet nearby if I did need to take him in, so if there is anything at all I can do otherwise, I need to try it first. Also, I put a Dr. Turtle in the tank after changing the water. This gets done with each full tank cleaning.
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2 Cats both female
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:24 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Dr. Turtle? Those little white chalky things?
Take it out!!!!!!!
I know I sound like a broken record, but....Jello Shots never failed for me....(recipe in "Feeding and Nutrition" section)
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Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:48 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Yes, it's the white chalky thing. Will it hurt him? Everything I've read says they're safe, and it's never bothered him before, but I'll remove what is left of it. I copied the recipe for the Jello shots. Hope to have some ready for him tomorrow. I tried giving him some chicken today, but he wasn't interested. Just now dropped him a few pellets soaked in Salmon juice from my cat's canned food. Not even a 2nd glance. He has moved over to his basking rock now but he isn't crawling up on it, just propping himself on the edge so his head is out of the water.

I noticed this afternoon after I took him out of his tank for awhile that he is keeping his left eye closed all the time now. He was walking around the living room pretty quickly, but once he went back in the water, he swam around for a few minutes almost like normal then he slowed down and hid behind his rock again. While in the water, he pulls his head back into his shell. Could this be an infection in his eye? We did notice him rubbing them a lot before I cleaned the tank and especially since he went back in after it was cleaned. Now I'm wondering if I should take him out and just completely clean it again. It's only been a week and the rocks are already turning green with algae. That's never happened this fast before. The filter isn't even dirty yet, and the water is perfectly clear. Should I dry dock him for awhile? I'm really second guessing everything I do at this point. He is my first turtle, and I want to do everything right for him. There's so much information out there that is not good. So glad I finally found this forum for help from experienced owners.
Live life to the fullest...Today may be your last chance.

1 RES Male Turtimus Prime (Angel/little fighter)
2 Cats both female
Dilute Tortie- Henna (aka Play Machine!)
Med. Hair Tuxedo- Jill (aka Queen)
JCsTurt
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: SW Missouri
Gender: Female

Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:58 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Place a thermometer on the basking to measure it's temperature. Some people use a rock the size of their turtle and place a thermometer on that. A standard florescent light will not emit UVB. Only specialty bulbs emit UVB. Most other bulbs are filtered for safety reasons. Overall the setup needs upgrades, but that's another situation.

Is his trying to eat? Is he spitting it out or just no showing interest? Is still active and what else has changed?
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:01 am   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Is your tank in direct sunlight? Unfortunately, your hubby will not be pleased to know that these guys are EXPENSIVE. I have put thousands of dollars in to my two girls over the past two years (well..I didnt have this message board..so a lot of trial and error with filters, tanks, basking areas, light bulbs..). It sounds like he may have swallowed a piece of gravel before you removed it and he could have impacted intestines.. but its been a while so I could be wrong.

Do you have a water testing kit? I personally don't use chemicals in my water because my tap tests well and I just let the chlorine evaporate. Maybe you should try using less of the water conditioner that what the instructions say?

For the light, most of use use a standard light bulb just to heat the basking area along with a UVB bulb.

Did he eat the jello shots?
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:07 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

OMG I got up to near heartbreak this morning! I came to the living room and Turtimus' tank was empty and his basking light unplugged. My hands were shaking as I dialed hubby's cell. Me: "Did he die?" Hubby: "No, not yet anyway. He's out in the yard in the tub. I moved it out in the sunlight. I forgot to call and tell you." Me: Do NOT scare me like that again!

@steve: Thanks! I'll pick up a thermo today to measure basking temps. He doesn't try to eat at all. Just no interest. He is no longer active unless I put him in the floor to walk around and then he seems to scoot along pretty quick. I noticed yesterday that he is keeping his left eye closed all the time now. I have him outside in fresh sunlight at the moment. I put him in the grass and let him walk around the yard and he seemed okay with that, but when I put him back in his tub, he just went back inside his shell. Still no interest in any food at all.

@sflemin2: The tank is not in direct sunlight. It is in a corner next to a window that has a curtain on it. Also on the other wall is another window with an AC Unit in it. Not my favorite choice for tank location but it was the best we had to fit one in here. I know he is about to outgrow this tank, too. We are debating on a 55 gal and possibly making a spot in a different room. Would the change in location probably stress Turt out? I'm thinking he'll be so happy about a bigger tank he won't notice. Oh I get the info on the UVB light, but after countless arguments with my husband on this, I can't figure out how to convince him it is necessary to buy the more expensive bulb. If anyone has a link to reasonably priced UVB bulbs for the tank I'd much appreciate that! As for the jello shots, I have to go to the store to get the gelatin still. I'll update once we've tried that. I don't think he'd bother with it right now as he is showing no interest at all in anything I offer him. As soon as something drops in the tank he turns away and runs to hide.

I found a herp vet in Springdale (about an hour away), but I haven't read or heard anything about them which makes me a little nervous. I'm thinking about giving them a call to see what they'll advise over the phone. Hubby did agree to taking him in for antibiotics if necessary. He just doesn't want to spend huge amounts of money on risky procedures that will likely end in death anyway. I'm going to call my kitties' vet and see if he has anyone who treats reptiles, but I'm doubting it. (Time to get the cats in for shots anyway.) I hope to get him feeling better soon. It's heartbreaking seeing him like this when he used to be so jolly.. He had such a playful personality.
Live life to the fullest...Today may be your last chance.

1 RES Male Turtimus Prime (Angel/little fighter)
2 Cats both female
Dilute Tortie- Henna (aka Play Machine!)
Med. Hair Tuxedo- Jill (aka Queen)
JCsTurt
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: SW Missouri
Gender: Female

Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:55 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

UPDATE: Turt appears to be declining still. He won't go back into the water and he just sits tucked up in his shell no matter where I put him. I finally started the line of phone calls and referrals. Four calls later, I finally have an appointment with a Reptile Vet. I have to drive at least an hour to get there, but they were awesome to work with me over the phone. They took my number and I got a call back from the veterinarian within 10 minutes. If I didn't have so far to drive, they were going to work him in this afternoon. The vet seems to think it may be RI, but we'll find out more after tomorrow's visit. Poor little guy is still just sitting on his dock tucked in his shell right now. He moves only enough that I know he is still alive when I reach in and scratch his shell. I hope he makes it until morning. Thanks everyone for your help. I've learned so much the last couple of days reading things on this forum! I know I have a lot of work to do on my tank setup in the next few weeks!

Another thing doc said could be the culprit is the food I was giving him. I recently had to change brands when they didn't have what I bought the first time, and he has become more finicky since the new stuff. She told me to bring in what I've been trying to feed him, too. . That's also about the time we started giving him more live prey - grasshoppers, crickets, spiders. I just assumed he was wanting more live prey to eat. Never thought it could be the other food. She didn't seem to think there would be any problems with the Reptisafe, but did suggest I may want to test my water before my next change. I forgot to ask about the Dr. Turtle. Should be an interesting visit tomorrow. Maybe we'll upgrade to a bigger home once we get through this infection.
Live life to the fullest...Today may be your last chance.

1 RES Male Turtimus Prime (Angel/little fighter)
2 Cats both female
Dilute Tortie- Henna (aka Play Machine!)
Med. Hair Tuxedo- Jill (aka Queen)
JCsTurt
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: SW Missouri
Gender: Female

Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:05 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Some turtles have been known to poop out rocks months after they were removed from the tank, so don't rule that out yet. Is it possible for you to post some pics of the turtle and his habitat. It will help us diagnose better. He needs to eat a good brand turtle pellet like reptomin along with some veggies. The foods you are feeding him on a regular basis are best used as the occasional treats and are very high in protein. He may have a vitamin deficiency. For the eye he keeps closed, put one drop of cod liver oil in the eye once a day. You can find them in the vitamin isle. Just make sure there is nothing else added to it, just pure cod liver oil. This will give him a vitamin a boost and sooth the eye. If possible try to get him to eat pure pumpkin with no seasonings added. This may help him poop if he does have a small impaction. If none of the above helps he will need a trip to the vet. The vet will probably need to do x-rays to rule out an impaction unless he starts showing any other symptoms. A UVB bulb is needed. Maybe you can show your husband this forum to convince him. Good Luck!
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:09 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Ok you posted while I was typing my long winded reply. I'm glad you have an appt. tomorrow. The reason the Dr. Turtle is not recommended is because it is made of sulfur. Sulfur is used as a medication in turtles and if he's exposed to it all of the time it may not work when needed. Kind of like antibiotics in humans. Please keep us posted.
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The only dumb question is one not asked.
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:56 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Well, we had a very informative visit to the vet today followed by some serious shopping at Petco and PetSmart. Doc says he doesn't act like he is impacted and it isn't likely he ate any rocks. The reason for no poop is because he isn't eating. Nothing in means nothing out. He doesn't have any infection, so she did explain the same thing Love of Animals did about the Dr. Turtle, so no more of that unless directed by a doc. (There's so much bad information out there, it gets frustrating trying to figure things out sometimes. I had read that it was a good idea to go ahead and put one in the tank after cleaning just to keep the water treated so he wouldn't get sick in the first place. :twisted: )

Turns out he has a Vitamin A deficiency. He got a shot and I got a lot of instruction on veggies to try giving him and what supplements to buy if I can't get him to eat those. So a trip to the grocery store is in order later this evening or tomorrow morning to stock up on Yellow, Red, and Orange Bell Peppers, Red leaf lettuce, Romaine lettuce, carrots, and I already have a few cucumbers. Hey I need to start eating more salads myself, anyway. She also advised I add some water lilies and anacharis to the tank for him to munch on. She thinks getting his Vitamin A straightened out will help him start eating the veggies,too. By the time we got to PetCo after leaving the vet, only about a mile or so away, he was opening both eyes again. He's still just laying around on his dock right now, but she said he probably would be pretty worn out after the stressful visit to the doctor's office today. He was pretty active in his bucket on the way home. He kept trying to climb out of the bucket and getting himself turned over on his back. Made for an interesting time trying to keep him on his belly while driving in traffic. He was a little trooper through my trips to the pet stores on the way back though.

Both Petco and PetSmart were out of Anacharis, and neither had any of the other plants that have been suggested for turtles, so looking for another pet shop in the area to try next week or just keep checking back with the other 2 until they get more in stock. All I can find for water lilies or water hyacinth is bulbs to grow it yourself and I've never had any luck with those growing anything but mold. :| I did get a new Opti-Glo UVB bulb for the tank, and some Nutrifin Pellets to try feeding him. He hasn't eaten any so far, but he did give them a good hard look when I put a couple next to him on the dock. I got these because they said they had extra Vitamin A in them and they are shrimp flavored which he really likes, so hoping that will help. They cost a bit more too, so I'm hoping that may be a small indication they are a better quality brand. Hard to tell these days though. Still going to try the jello shots too once I get to the grocery store to buy the ingredients. After being instructed by the vet to get a reptile bulb, hubby finally let up on the campaign for any old flourescent light for the tank hood.

If he continues to improve, it's back to business as usual only with improved care on my part. If he stays the same or gets any worse, he goes back for another shot in about 7n - 10 days. If I cant get him to eat any veggies, I have to start giving him Reptivite a couple times a week, so he'll get his Vitamins. I've really tried and tried to get him to eat the pellets both ZooMed and Reptomin, but he just won't have it. If he does bite into one he just spits it back out. So I'm trying Nutrifin now to see if that helps. Anyone else use these? I'll try to get some pics of his tank set up to post later. I know it needs improvements, but it's the best I can do for right now and he seems comfy with it for the most part though he is outgrowing it quickly. Thanks so much for all the help. Glad to have found some experienced RES owners to help get me on the right path!
Live life to the fullest...Today may be your last chance.

1 RES Male Turtimus Prime (Angel/little fighter)
2 Cats both female
Dilute Tortie- Henna (aka Play Machine!)
Med. Hair Tuxedo- Jill (aka Queen)
JCsTurt
 
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:22 pm   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

My turtle loves red leaf lettuce and dandelion leaves I pick in my yard. To get him to eat veggies and pellets soak them in tuna water first. Once you get him eating again and healthy the easiest way to get them to eat veggies is tough love. Put the veggies in the tank with no other food. Hang tough he's going to make you feel like a meanie. With nothing else to eat he'll eventually eat his veggies. Glad he's on the mend and I hope he stays that way.
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:28 am   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

Just be a little careful with the vitamin shots, I think a lot of vets overprescribed it.
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:15 am   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

(broken record) jello shots, jello shots, jello shots, and take him out in the sun.,
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:41 am   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

So it sounds like he's slowly improving? Keep us updated! Do you have any small local pet shops? That's where I find my aquatic plants. My turtles like water sprite but I don't know that it is as nutritious as anacharis (which.. my store didn't have either). Glad Hubby is cooperating!
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:56 am   Re: Turtimus Prime is sickly...can anyone help?

BAD news for Turtimus Prime....I took Turt back to the vet yesterday as his condition appeared to worsen over the weekend. He still wouldn't eat and now keeps both eyes closed all the time. This time we saw the "expert" turtle doctor. Outlook for Turt is very grim at this point. She took an x-ray and found that he does have severe MBD. It appears I have failed him and he is probably not going to make it. She said it would take weeks to get him turned around if we can do it at all. She's not very hopeful at this point.

She gave him a calcium shot and a can canine/feline ad critical care food to try to force feed him with a syringe. Any tips on how to get him to open his mouth so I can actually get some of it in him? Tried for an hour or so last night - 30 mins after we got home and 30 mins after dinner. Best I was able to do was to smear some around his beak and he eventually sucked a tiny amt through. Most just ended up all over his face though We are now debating on releasing him back to the wild in a creek or pond to live out his last days in peace, free of humankind. Hubby was going to take him back to the pond at work where he got him, but this morning when he went to his tank, he was alert and swimming around as if looking for something, so we're giving it another effort to get him to eat something today.. I just really don't know what to do at this point to get food into him. He is in his tub outside now getting some real sunlight. Doc said this was very good to leave him outside to soak up the sun. When I came in, he wasn't showing any interest in the variety of food I put out for him, but he was swimming around more alertly than he has been the last couple of days. He still doesn't open his eyes though. Oh how I wish I had found this forum a lot earlier. We probably could have avoided these problems. I just didn't know I was being so cruel to him. :cry: Now that I know how to care for him, it is so frustrating not being able to get him to respond to anything.
Live life to the fullest...Today may be your last chance.

1 RES Male Turtimus Prime (Angel/little fighter)
2 Cats both female
Dilute Tortie- Henna (aka Play Machine!)
Med. Hair Tuxedo- Jill (aka Queen)
JCsTurt
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 7, 2011
Location: SW Missouri
Gender: Female

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