Urgent Care :: Flip won't eat and shell looks weird

[owiejojo]

I have two RES that I got in May. They are about 3 to 3.5 inches long now. The two of them are in a 20-gallon tank heated to 78 degrees, filtered, basking light and platform, UVB light. I have been feeding them about 4 pellets each every day, along with red-leaf lettuce or zuccini squash every other day, plus brine treats on the days I don't give them veggies. They also have a turtle bone in there and the water is conditioned. Am I feeding them too much? They both have a little bit of pyramidding.

I cleaned their tank Friday night and since then Flip has stopped eating. The two of them usually eat right out of my hand. I'm noticing now that her shell is starting to curl up on the edges. I've been bad about turning on the UVB light every day, could that be the cause? What should I do for her? Thanks.

Julie
2 RES, Flip & Scooter

[marisa]

Can you post a pic of the turtles' shells dry?

It doesn't sound like you're feeding to much for pellets, but it does sound like you're feeding the brine treats (shrimp?) too often. How many do they get at a feeding? It would be good to vary the diet more, especially with different veggies and aquatic plants (read the feeding info for what to give).

How much have your turtles grown since you got them? The curling up of the shell edges can be the result of factors including overfeeding, a diet that's too high in protein, an improper calcium/ vit D/phosphorus ratio, a combination of the three.

Do they eat the cuttlebone (turtle bone)?

How often do they bask under their UVB light? If you're bad about turning it on, buy a timer for it (for the heat light as well). Taking them outside regularly for direct sunlight in the summer months is really good for them.

How old is the UVB light? Regular UVB lights should be changed every 6-8 months.

Improve and vary their diet (lower the amount of protein/those brine treats---I'd stop giving them for a while and then give them only rarely, and not many when you do), increase their calcium intake and give them ample time to bask under proper lighting. Since they're young, the problem should eventually correct itself over time. How much depends on how bad the curling has become. Again, can you post pics of those shells dry?

[owiejojo]

I will try to get a picture of them tonight and post. I've been giving the brine treats about every other day, just a few bits to each turtle. I'll quit giving that to them and get more veggies. They do eat the cuttlebone. They've grown about an inch since I got them in May. They were in terrible conditions. There must have been 20 little turtles in a plastic tank with nothing but a rock and lots of debris. They had really been thriving until last week. The UVB light is practically brand new. I've been leaving the heat lamp on all day long and turning it off when we go to bed. The UVB light however, is not even turned on everyday. I turned it on today and will leave it on all day as well. I think Flip might be swimming a little lopsided, too. thanks for the advice.

[owiejojo]

well crap, I can't figure out how to post these pictures.

[SpotsMama]

Here's instructions on posting a picture. If it doesn't work for you, speak right up and we'll help.

http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1811

[owiejojo]

Here are the pictures...I hope. She hasn't eaten for a week, made some weird noises like she was "barking" at me. This morning wouldn't open her eyes when I approached.






Julie

[SpotsMama]

Hi Julie, Flip looks very sweet.

I'm worried about his recent behavior. Not eating and eye problems and noisy breathing are symptoms of an illness like a respiratory infection (RI).

Also, the borrom of his shell looks like it may be discolored. Does it look to you like it's bruised?

It may not be RI, but if your little one hasn't eaten for days then something's not right. Do you know a herp vet? I'd find one and make an appointment to get him checked. Turtles have their best chance of surviving an illness when they get good treatment early on.

Another thing - if little Flip is ill then he may be contageous. He should be separated from Scooter and kept warm, very clean, and avoid stress until he can see the vet. Keep trying to get him to eat - here are some tips on enticing a turtle to eat:

http://www.redearslider.com/entice_eating.html

Since he hasn't eaten for several days, it's ok to offer him things that you would normally only offer occasionally for treats, just to get some calories in him. Something like a bit of tuna in water or shrimp might tempt him.

Keep a close eye on Scooter in case he starts showing symptoms.

Good luck. Please keep in touch and let us know how things are going.

[owiejojo]

Flip and Scooter are at the vet now. I found a herp vet pretty close and ran them over on my lunch hour. I had to leave them since they had no appointments available today, but the vet will squeeze them in when he can. I did notice the bottom of his shell is discolored. I don't know how it could've gotten bruised. He hasn't been dropped or fallen. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks!
Julie

[marisa]

Do you see how some of the blotches look a little blurry? This is from your turtle growing. The pattern to the discoloration looks to me like your turtle has been growing a little fast. (I'm assuming the basking area isn't made out of an abrasive material).

It's good you took them to the vet with the symptoms you described.

[owiejojo]

Vet thinks Flip has an RI so treating them both for that. They are keeping them overnight! And I have to go back on Sat. for another injection. I'm glad I took them in. What can you do to avoid this?
Julie

[SpotsMama]

Thank goodness he's getting treatment! I'm glad to hear the vet is keeping them overnight, too, so he/she can keep an eye on them.

Since you've only recently got your turtles, it's possible Flip (or both of them) had picked up a bug from where she was before and it's only now gotten so bad she's showing symptoms. Sometimes RI just comes on with turtles even when they've been treated very well but usually it's associated with some sort of stress or poor condition. Water that's not clean, temperatures that are too cold, poor diet, emotional stress are all things that can bring it on. Someone on here says that the best prevention against RI is a good water heater! However, in your case, the water temp at 78 degrees is just about perfect so that wouldn't have caused it. How would you rate the water quality in their tank? You can makes some improvements in their diet as discussed above and their basking light which will improve their overall health.

Keep an eye on them when you do get them home to make sure they don't relapse. Most of the turtles on here that have gotten treatement for RI get a series of shots, so make sure to follow up with those as directed by your vet.

Good luck. You did a very good thing to get them to the vet right away.

Marisa: I can see where there are blurry spots on the plastron as you describe. Can you also see some discoloration around almost the entire outer edge of the plastron? Maybe it's just a trick of the light, but it looks to me like bruising or stain of some sort. Does it cause you any concern? Maybe there's some color on the basking platform that's rubbing off. Or maybe the basking platform has an abrasive surface, as you mentioned. What do you think?

[owiejojo]

I am concerned about how quickly the water gets dirty and algae grows. I completely cleaned everything out last night, getting rid of the rocks 'cause I'm not sure they're big enough and am going shopping for a stronger filter today. Their basking platform is just one of the commercial Turtle Docks by zoomed I think? The vet tech. has told me I should add protein to their diet such as cut up worms (yuck) or frozen shrimp and when they get bigger feeder fish, etc. and others have told me to vary with more vegetables. This is getting too complicated. You're right about Flip's shell. It's turning yellow around the edges and turning upward.

[marisa]

You can vary the diet with all the foods you mentioned, but do get them eating plant matter, both veggies (esp. leafy greens ) and aquatic plants. Plant matter becomes a more important part of the diet as they grow older.

The water is getting dirty so quickly because the tank (20 gallons) is too small for the both of them---they're producing a lot of waste. If they're each 3 - 3.5 inches, they ideally should be in a 60-70 gallon tank, but because they're growing, getting an even bigger container would be better. A stronger filter in the 20-gallon may help at first, but you're somewhat limited as to what you can put in a tank that small, and even a better filter eventually won't be able to keep up with the waste they produce. Nutrients from waste in the tank, heat and light (is the tank near a window?), all help algae to form. Consider getting a bigger tank as well as a better filter.

If they're on a turtle dock, I doubt that's causing the coloring on the plastron. I see only one plastron, though. The other turtle is the same? I think the coloring is from fast growth. There are, however, two small dark spots near the center seam. Are they part of the pattern on the plastron, or possibly small injuries to the plastron?

[owiejojo]

Scooter, the other turtle, looks about the same underneath, his shell is greener though and not as yellow around the edges. He is a little smaller than Flip. I don't know about the injury question 'cause I've never seen a turtle with an injury. I'm looking at a bigger tank for them this weekend. If I find one I'll order the Filstar xp3 for them. I also picked up some aquatic plants today. Why waste money on things for the small tank? Ya know, the pet companies that market these "getting started turtle kits", should get a little more educated. It's almost false advertising. I wasted a couple hundred bucks setting up this small tank. The turts are at the vets until tomorrow.

[SpotsMama]

You mentioned "almost false advertising". I think it IS false advertising. I think the people in the business of selling turtles don't know or don't want to know what it really takes to keep one - their business is selling. They know that a lot of people would be scared off if they were told right at the first what it was really going to take to keep a healthy, happy aquatic turtle.

Once you get to know them (the turtles) and realize what remarkable little creatures they are, then it becomes easier to do what it takes to build a good habitat. It sounds like you are definitely headed in the right direction. Good luck.