Urgent Care :: Suspect Septicemia

[DragonTurtle]

Hello, my little RES has developed bright red on its carapace (I noticed yesterday night). I'm calling the vet tomorrow morning, but wondered if anyone else's knows if a diet high in bloodworm and fish can cause this. There is no red on her shell otherwise, or on the skin. Dragon Turtle has always been healthy, and is growing well. She is not lethargic, is eating voraciously, walks with her usual gusto, and swims fast as a bullet. Her eyes are sharp and clear. Other than the red on the carapace, I'd have no worries.

We've moved recently to Santa Barbara and have noticed the tap water here tastes very different, almost like bottled water - might this be the cause of the red? Could there be chemicals in the water, or ammonia? Is there a way to test my water? We treat the water with Reptisafe. I bought two live plants recently, she didn't like them, and they quickly turned yellow - another reason I think there might be something out of balance in the water...

We keep her tank clean, although there is often a build-up of calcium on the glass (we scrape this off with a razor, and wash the tank with warm water, no soap or bleach). There are 4 large fish who share the tank - should we remove them?

I've tried to link a photo, please tell me if it doesn't work: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p70/ ... 1165829481

K. Thanks! I'll give an update after the vet visit.

How big is your turtle? Fits in my palm, 2 inches wide, 3 inches long
How long have you had it? 2 1/2 years

What is the water temperature? 76 (she won't go in when warmer)
Are you using a water heater? Yes
How much water is in there? 75 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? yes, Reptisafe
Are you using any filtration? yes

What is the basking temperature? 80, or she'll sit by the window while out for a cruise
Is there a basking light? no, natural sun
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? floating dock, plastic rock
Is there a UVB light? yes

What have you been trying to feed it? Bloodworms, Brine shrimp. Trying veggies and fruits, after 2 years still no luck.
When was the last time your turtle ate? 1 hour ago

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 100 gallon tank
Is the tank near a window? No, but has indirect light
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? yes

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes, keywords septicemia, carapace,

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? None

[jenaero]

First off, the basking temperature should be at least 10 degrees warmer than the water. Res bask in order to warm up which aides in digestion. I keep my basking temp at 90 and the water at 72-75. You can use a household bulb in combination with the uvb lamp above the dock.

I'd suspect the diet may have led to the discoloration, although it could also be septicemia. Let us know how it goes.

[steve]

There was someone who posted similar pics a couple of months ago. I think the cause was very excessive feeding/growth, but it would be good if a herp vet checked it out.

[SpotsMama]

It's a really good idea to test the water in case there's something bad but invisible building up.

A good comprehensive kit that a lot of us use is the Freshwater Master Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. You can get it off the shelf at places like Petsmart for around $35, or you can get it a lot cheaper on-line if you don't mind waiting for delivery.

With the kit you can test for the 4 really significant things: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph. The kit comes with supplies enough for hundreds of tests. I've had mine since last summer and for awhile, when I was establishing Spot's aquarium, I tested daily. Now I only test when I'm doing a water change or filter cleaning.

[DragonTurtle]

We're heading out to the vet now, thanks for the info everyone. I'll stop and get a water test kit today too.

Hey! Dragon Turtle finally ate some fruit! Now, to solve the mystery of the red carapace...

[DragonTurtle]

So I thought I'd pass on the results, for anyone searching on the topic in the future.

Yes, it is a bacterial infection in the blood. It's not too advanced though, and we were given antibiotics (baytril) to administer by mouth once a day, every other day for 6 doses. The doc says if Dragon Turtle becomes lethargic, return for an injection.

I asked what could have caused this and the doc said it's probably my UVB bulb. I haven't changed it in about a year, and it's possible that even though it still looks bright, it's not emitting UV rays anymore. This in turn lead to a drop in Dragon Turtle's immune system and whatever toxin she consumed, her system just couldn't cleanse it. So tomorrow I'm shopping for a new one.

The doc said the tank setup was good, except the UVB bulb. Water temp was good, not to raise it if I've already noticed Dragon Turtle won't swim if it's warmer. I asked about her picky diet, and she said it was a narrow range of food items, but not to worry about it. Her main dietary staples (bloodworms, brine, feeder fish, and fruit) are nutritious.

Oh, and I found a local pet store, "Pet House," in Goleta, where they test water for free.

What advice can I offer someone in a similar situation?
1) Call the vet! NOW! If I'd waited another week or two, I might have lost her.
2) Change the UVB bulb frequently.
3) Follow your turtle's lead, if they don't live exactly like the book says they should, it's alright! But it's good to check with your vet to confirm your decisions are healthy ones.
4) If you're in Goleta or Santa Barbara, Valley Animal Hospital is a good place to go. The docs there have turtles and tortoises of their own - and they know what they're doing!

Thanks everyone!

[marisa]

Good luck at the vets. A pic of that carapace would have been interesting to see...

[DragonTurtle]

Marisa,

In the lead post I included a link to the carapace.

[marisa]

Sorry about that. We crossed each other---You posted the results of the visit just before I posted.

Wow, interesting plastron. Good you caught the infection in time. Hopefully the Baytril will do the job without any further injections. (Baytril can cause loss of appetite while your turtle is on it.)

[DragonTurtle]

Thanks for the correction Marisa, yep, I sure did post a pix of the plastron!

And thanks for the head's up about the loss of appetite. I ended up going back for injection needles, she didn't like the taste of the baytril, and I was afraid to force her mouth open. Within 10 minutes of the injection she started throwing up all of her breakfast. She also sat at the bottom of the tank not moving, with her mouth open, for a very long time. I'm sure she would have come to the surface for air, but I didn't want to risk it so I moved her to a smaller container with the UVA/B lights. She was still for about 2 hours, then suddenly was back to her normal self.

She's back in the tank now, eating well, and swimming around as usual. 5 more injections to go...

[SpotsMama]

Wow. That's kind of scary. Did the vet tell you to expect that kind of reaction?

[DragonTurtle]

Hi SpotsMama. Yes, it was scary. We've given her a second dose now, and she did much better with it. There were none of the earlier side-effects, and she seems ready to return to her tank now (we have her in a sulfa bath).

During the vet visit, I did ask what I should expect and she (the vet) said turtles vary, but that the benefits in this case outweigh the risk, and that she was giving a dosage small enough so as to avoid damaging the liver. She forwarned that it causes extreme thirst and we should keep the turtle in water to prevent dehydration during treatment. She also prescribed sulfa baths to prevent skin-tissue damage or infection at the site of injection.

I looked up baytril online, and indeed it does pose serious risks at high doses, and can be fatal. I found only one page that said vomiting indicated an allergic reaction, but the webpage was for dogs. When I phoned, the receptionist told me initial reactions can be strong, but usually get easier with subsequent doses - this seems to be the case for us.

[SpotsMama]

That's a relief!