Urgent Care :: Soft shell in a young turtle

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:51 pm   Soft shell in a young turtle

This problem has to do with the same turtle, Tripod, that I made a thread about before. He is a wild caught slider (I think YBS) that I got from a local pond, he was sickly looking and only had 3 legs when I caught him. I've had him for about 2.5 months I think, and although he eats very well he has also had pretty much no noticeable growth. Today I noticed that his shell is very flexible around the edges and a little soft on top too. I don't handle him that much so I'm not sure if it has been like that for long, but I'm pretty sure that it was not that soft when I first got him. I don't have a UVB light but he gets several hours of outside basking at least twice a week and loves laying in the sun. There is a backing area in the tank that he also enjoys but it has a regular light. I'm starting to think that he has congenital problems because he just doesn't seem normal. I have a couple of questions:

1) I'm going to try supplementing calcium, it it possible to give them too much calcium? I have some reptical and I was thinking of dunking some wet krill in it and feeding it to him to make sure he gets some. I'm just not sure how much he should have.

2) I would think that direct sunlight would be the best source of UVB, am I wrong about that? I heard that turts should be fine with 5 hours of UVB basking a week and he does get that outside.

3) I also read that another cause of soft shell could be fungus or shell rot. Is it likely that this is what is going on?

Need advice soon please, thanks. I'm hoping Steve will chime in :)
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:23 am   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

The shell of a hatchling will be slightly pliable. You might not notice growth right away, but take a scale and weigh him regularly. What is he currently eating?

1) Try getting the phosphorus free calcium from Rep-Cal and dusting the pellets or mix it into the jello-shot recipe viewtopic.php?t=17486
2) 5 hours of sun would be great
3) It's possible, are there any other visible problems with the shell?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:35 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

1) He is eating Zoo-med hatchling formula and krill for treats. There is also water lettuce in his tank and I offer green leaf lettuce but I don't think he eats any of either.

2) Good!

3) His shell has looked weird ever since I got him, it has a brownish color and the scutes aren't really flat like they're supposed to be. Some of them are kinda sunken looking in the middle and some of them look like they're peeling up a little around the edges. The peeling does not look like shedding though, other than that I don't really know how to describe it. I'll put up the pics I have but they aren't very good.

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The thing about the lack of growth is that I know it's not just me being impatient or paranoid. I got another hatchling at the same time from the same place, it had what I think was a broken leg - it's leg was just flopping around whenever it tried to swim. They were almost exactly the same size when I got them. I have kept them together in a 55 gallon tank under the same conditions, with the same food, the other turt's leg has healed and he is in great shape, he is now 4 or 5x bigger than Tripod, and his shell is darkening like they do when they grow up. The appearance of Tripod's shell seems exactly the same, it hasn't appeared to grow at all and it still has the designs (all the concentric circles and stuff) that hatchling shells do. Plus his tankmates shell doesn't feel soft at all.

The edges of his shell are more than slightly pliable, they're almost floppy. It's worrisome. Could dry-docking help with the softness? My intuition says it might. I've been giving him some extra outside basking time the last few days while the temps are a little lower than usual here, hopefully that might help too.

By the way, when Tripod's shell is dry it is a dull brown color and you can't see the designs unless you look really close. It is totally matte, without any of the glossiness that most turtles have. That may be another symptom of whatever is wrong with his shell. It had always been like that though.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 am   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

Were they fed at the same time? It's very likely that the other one ate more than his own share. I'll try to see if I can get an ID on him.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:16 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

Yeah they were fed at the same time, and the other one is more enthusiastic about the pellets so he probably did get more, but I always tried to make sure that tripod got enough by luring him over to a different corner of the tank and feeding him. He really doesn't seem to like the pellets much, and doesn't eat veggies at all as far as I've seen, but he goes crazy over krill. I have had him isolated from his tankmate for the last few days.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:37 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

Even if it looks like they are getting the same share, one usually eats faster and will consume more. As for the ID... no one seems to be sure :(
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:13 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

You mean the species ID? I'm gonna stick with YBS since I haven't heard any different.

I thought of a question in the meantime - How fast can improvement be noticeable for a case of softshell? If he starts getting better, should I be able to tell in a few days, or weeks, or longer?
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:16 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

ID go with its a ybs slider too. The brown look on his shell is an iron oxcide staining. Very common to see in wild turtles that live near farms. It a harmless the stain. The staining will only go away after the turtle sheds. As for how fast the softshell will go away. It takes awhile, usually sides of shell still is flexiable until the turtle is bigger then 2.5inches about.

Question, you said he was missing one of his legs. Born that way or bitten off? I noticed that any turtle that gets an injury usually no growth will happen until the wound is completely healed. I had a painted the got bit of the side of his shell, and got an infection due to it and lost 3 scutes permanently. He didnt start growing till everything healed up while all other painteds hatchlings grew.

Wild caught painted with iron oxcide stain. Caught him in a farm pond.
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After a shed, same turtle
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:51 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

Hey thanks for the info about the staining, I've been very curious about that.

I don't know whether he was born that way or lost his leg to some predator after hatching, because it was like that when I found him. My guess is that he hatched with four and lost one, because I think I see some scar tissue there, but I'm not positive. It does seem to be completely healed if it was a wound, so I would expect the growth to start kicking in.

Like I said about his softshell, it is way softer than it should be. I've handled tons of hatchlings and none of them were like this. I'm doing everything I can to help him get better, so hopefully he does. I noticed that it looks like some algae is trying to start growing on his shell now, there are some little bluish green dots on the top of his shell. Is he more susceptible to algae with his shell soft?

One other thing I've noticed about him is that his plastron is pretty concave, which is weird. You might be able to see it in the first pic. I don't know if that is a symptom of anything or not.

Nice painted you've got there, the change before and after shed is pretty impressive. Thanks for your input Diamondbacks4Life I really appreciate it :)
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:39 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

Re: iron oxcide staining - Very interesting, I don't recall hearing/reading about it before.

Re: algae - I haven't heard of algae having an effect on soft shell conditions. However, I'll make sure he's basking a lot, has plenty of UVB and calcium. Also make sure his phosphorous intake is as little as possible.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:57 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

Alright I'm still working on fixing this little guy. I'm mostly feeding him pellets dusted with repti-cal, is that ok? I'm also dry-docking him for at least a few hours every day because of the algae, which seems to be clearing up. His shell also seems a lot firmer when he's been dry for a little while, but it doesn't stay that way once I put him back in the water. I've got a UVB bulb over the tank now but I haven't noticed him basking under it much.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:09 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

Reptical is good, make sure it's the version that is Phosphorous-Free. How many hours a day does he bask?
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:53 pm   Re: Soft shell in a young turtle

I haven't seen him basking at all for the last few days, but I work 9 hours a day and usually dry-dock him as soon as a get home. I put him under the light for a few minutes every day while I'm dry-docking to make sure that he's getting at least some uvb but I have no idea how much he's getting when I'm not there. I'll check and make sure the reptical is phosphorous-free.
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