Urgent Care :: UPDATE! The shell may just be normal, but.. this store..

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:35 pm   UPDATE! The shell may just be normal, but.. this store..

Okay, where do I begin?

It all started a couple months ago when I noticed he had a scratch on his shell, nothing big, just a minor scratch he had when I bought him. His scutes were perfectly aligned at this time, 3 columns of four scutes, and the scratch being on the second/third of the middle column.

Later.. I notice the scratch is getting worse but at the time I was havfing a lot of problems just feeding him so I couldn't give him my full attention on what I felt was a minor medical problem. I noticed little dark lines appearing between each of his scutes but disregarded it. (I was making a lot of mistakes at this point, I realize, none of them ever to be repeated. I was a newbie and I didn't research him thoroughly enough.)

At the end of the first month I noticed the dark lines were becoming a bit more prominent and his scutes were in awkward positions and there were more than before. (I'll explain this in a second) After finally buying a new tank with a proper basking light and area I put him in the tank and had a few people contacted for professional advice.

I'm skipping alot by the way, but the important details are there, he didn't have a proper basking area and his scratch must have somehow got infected because of his inability to dry off and keep bacteria out of his shell.

Now that I have all the proper equipment I've put my focus to the problem and have developed the following theory for the scutes irregularity: The scratch must have seperated the two scutes into four halves, the body being none the wiser, the halves somehow grew individually giving him the appearance of having more scutes than he should, which are now affecting the since unaffected healthy scutes.

(I wish I could provide a picture but use your imagination, the two scutes in the middle now becoming four mishapen scutes, and the remaining scutes becoming affected from the mess.)

(I FEEL SO BAD FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO HELP HIM BEFORE THIS HAPPENED! D: )

If that weren't enough, the bacteria of the shell from before, must have caused a shell infection* causing the layer underneath the individual scutes to rise up, making it look like the scutes are sinking. (To reiterate: The dark lines have become dark ridges that rose up between the scutes like little mountains, the change being barely noticable unless observed carefully)

*- I read a book in petsmart about the diseases a red ear slider can get and one of them called a 'shell infection' describes that the scutes would sink into the layer making it look like the layer under the scutes rose up. :(

Anyways, aside from all that he's fine, he has everything he needs and he's on a steady pellet diet from Zoomed. The slime I was talking about has gone away and may have been a temporary problem caused by changing tanks.

Treatment- I've rushed to his aid ever since I realized the problem wasn't as common/minor as I had thought, he's soaking in sulfa-dip (Though he's a bit small to do this) and I'm keeping a watchful eye on him, his tank will be cleaned soon as well to keep him in a clean environment until I can get him looked at by a herp vet.

Questions? Comments?

Please, I know you must be disappointed/furious/agitated at my lack of experience but what mistakes have been made cannot be undone and will not be repeated, I have a tight budget as of now after putting all the tank and accesories on my credit card so I don't have much money to provide the most excellent care he needs. I also would like to remind you all that if there was anyone more qualified to care for him in his ill state I would leave him in their care asap, though I would never give him up to anybody for permanent

(I haven't been able to clean out the tank after the mucous/fungus/skin incident in which layers of thin white scraps were floating around in the tank, I fished them out but haven't replaced the water, however the water looks fairly clean as of now but I'l clean it ASAP)
Last edited by alkaiser on Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
alkaiser
 
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:38 pm   

I hate to dump my problems on you all, but I have nowhere else to turn to at the time and it could be up to a week to get an appointment down for my slider.

(Thank you for all your help in the past!)
alkaiser
 
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:40 pm   

The one suggestion I would make is to get him to a good herp vet asap. It's wonderful that you've gotten a new setup but all that may not stop what has already started. You really need to find a way to get him check out and get a clean bill of health. Above all .. you should keep his water immaculately clean to prevent further infection and damage.
Carol
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cam722
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:27 am   

cam722 wrote:The one suggestion I would make is to get him to a good herp vet asap. It's wonderful that you've gotten a new setup but all that may not stop what has already started. You really need to find a way to get him check out and get a clean bill of health. Above all .. you should keep his water immaculately clean to prevent further infection and damage.
I'm planning on changing the water as soon as possible.

Anything I should use on the glass to help clean?

(Update: after the sulfa dip I noticed that it was actually the edges of the scutes that became black, causing the illusion of dark ridges. I was looking very closely at him, and for the first time in a while he remained perfectly still to let me inspect him in my hand. I also noticed a film on his shell with a pink/tan hue, so I took a cotton swab and brushed it all off, he seemed to appreciate that I think.

what is this film? could it be from vita shell? it is that colour... but it's been a while since I applied it to him.

Perhaps I put too much on then...

Oh well, the only other problem I noticed was that an area of the outer ring of 'scutes' is kind of.. weak and part of it is translucent/clear :(

By outer ring I mean the edges of his carapace, the teeny tiny scale things.

[Scutes are the little scales on the carapace right?]

Perhaps it could be the start of a new problem, I may have to up his vitamin D3 and calcium intake... I doubt it's shell rot, his shell's strength is about the same, though I might not be testing it properly, I usually just gently poke around but it seems as solid as any other hatchling I've seen. Perhaps I'm underestimating a hatchlings shell strength...)
alkaiser
 
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:55 pm   

If you're that concerned, have him seen by a herp vet.
"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." -Antoine de Saint Exupery-
marisa
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:13 pm   

UPDATE!

I found out that the scales, though irregular, are not from any kind of disease, as I went to the pet store and had a good look at the turtles there.

Upon entering, I was somewhat shocked. They have about 60 hatchlings in a 50 gallon tank, really kind of pathetic, I'm considering saying something but I just can't find a way to, since they're illegal to sell at that age

They were all on this one little turtle log and tree branch, all of them with their heads held high. Like a giant turtle riot.

Anyone know anything about this?

Post suggestions!

(Anyways, I had a good long look at all their shells and found that the 12 scute pattern wasn't always true, and that many turtles had a different amount of scutes, though rare.)
alkaiser
 
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:30 pm   

My RES has an extra vertebral scute. And one of the painteds has a totally irregular scute (like a triangle) on his carapace--he has duly been named Scute. :)

Are you asking about basking with the head out and held high? If so, this is normal, and usually considered to be a sign of a healthy turt. Pity that they have so many in one tank (not unusual, and not healthy conditions to be living in). :(
"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." -Antoine de Saint Exupery-
marisa
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:47 pm   

My RES has an extra scute on one side- it's like one scute is divided. Like humans, they do not have to be totally symmetrical; there is room in nature for variation.

About the lumpy shell, though, I would be concerned. This can be caused by poor nutrition or a lack of UVB.

It also sounds like he is retaining some keratin. This can happen when a turtle does not have a proper basking area. The clear bits on the edge of his shell are a sign of that, but it could be harmless.

He may need to see a vet.
I used to be a reptile expert. Now I'm just an old turtle lover.
reptilegrrl
 
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm   

alkaiser wrote:UPDATE!

I found out that the scales, though irregular, are not from any kind of disease, as I went to the pet store and had a good look at the turtles there.

Upon entering, I was somewhat shocked. They have about 60 hatchlings in a 50 gallon tank, really kind of pathetic, I'm considering saying something but I just can't find a way to, since they're illegal to sell at that age

They were all on this one little turtle log and tree branch, all of them with their heads held high. Like a giant turtle riot.

Anyone know anything about this?

Post suggestions!

(Anyways, I had a good long look at all their shells and found that the 12 scute pattern wasn't always true, and that many turtles had a different amount of scutes, though rare.)


Call the FDA. In my town there was a guy selling them at mall kiosks. It made me sick. I contacted the Florida Wildlife folks and they said to call the FDA about it. So I did. I left a message and they called me back saying that they had recieved other complaints and were looking into it. A few days later the guy was shut down. Woo! So if you're really serious about doing something, I say call the FDA and see what they have to say about it.
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