Urgent Care :: Green algae and red spotting on shell.

[TimInNY]

I am new to turtle keeping so I will start with the list of infomation to include.

How big is your turtle? 2 turtles one is a bout 5.5 inches and the other about 6.5 inches

How long have you had it? 5-6 months.

What is the water temperature? 75-80 degrees.

Did you use a thermometer? No.

Are you using a water heater? No.

How much water is in there? 22 gallons (35 gallon half hex)

Are you using a water conditioner? I started using TopFin Water Conditioner about one month ago, nothing prior to that.

Are you using any filtration? One in-tank Whisper 40i, and one unknown that hangs on the back of the tank of similar volume. Both use large Bio-Bags.

What is the basking temperature? Unknown.

Is there a basking light? They have a 100 watt turtle lamp approximately 8 inches above water level. Though they hardly ever bask, I would guess less than an hour a day.

Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? They have a ramp that goes from about 3 inches below water level to about 1 inch above the water level. (Reading this forum I have discovered the need for a basking area where they can dry off)

What kind is it or what is it made out of? Plexiglass.

Is there a UVB light? Yes. 100 watt turtle light.

What have you been trying to feed it? Reptomin Floating Food Sticks for turtles, frogs and newts. 10-15 meal worms per month, occasional green leafy vegatables, dandoline leaves, spinach, and the infrequent rasberry, grape or other fruit.

When was the last time your turtle ate? Everyday.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? They came home from the pet store in a 20 gallon long with about 3 inches of water until I discovered shortly after that that was woefully inadequate. They now have a 35 gallon half hex with about 18-19 inches of water depth.

Is the tank near a window? No.

Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Yes. Livingroom.

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes.

Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes.

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? They are a pair of male/female she is shy most of the time, he is very attentive to the food canister and generally more curious.

Until about two weeks ago they shared their tank with seven goldfish between 4-6 inches each. They were originally bought as feeder fish for the turtles but I don't think they ever ate any of them.

I got rid of the goldfish to improve the water quality and discovered that the goldfish were consuming 80% or more of the food.

Both turtle have green algae growing on their shells and have begun to develop red patches on their undersides, and a couple of small blemishes that I think are the beginning of shell rot.

I am hoping that getting rid of the goldfish will get the tank back to a healthier state, but I also think the turtles are going to need some sort of other intervention to reverse the ongoing problems.

There is no decoration in the tank other than a rock structure for them to hide behind, though the only time they ever go behind it is when I am working on the tank. Also, there is no gravel.

I was planning on moving them to a larger tank over the winter, but will move them sooner to give them a better, and dry, basking area.

So I guess the big question is do they need to go to the vet and what can I do myself to help address their current problems.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Tim

[untsmurf]

Well first, get a soft toothbrush a lightly scrub the turtles' shells. That should get the algae off their shells. After that, give them a good once over and see if there are any soft spots in the shell or any spots that are smelly. That should help determine the problem. If you do find a spot like this, get a picture of that part of the shell (when it's dry) and that will also help the diagnosis.

[SpotsMama]

Untsmurf is right on target as to what to do. I'm going to go a step further and say I think you should get them in to see a good herp vet. I'm very concerned about those shells. From the photos it does look to me like some shell rot is taking hold, which wouldn't be surprising if they haven't been basking and drying off frequently.

For long term shell health, turtles need a good balanced diet with lots of calcium and must have clean water, good basking and good UVB light. I don't think diet is the problem here - be sure they got cuttlebone to munch on, don't give them spinich, and reduce the mealworms to only once in a blue moon. The pellets you're giving them are good, and it sounds like they're eating their veggies. Read up on turtle nuitrition on this site and you'll get more ideas about how to provide a healthy diet with more variety.

On the basking, if turtles don't get to bask and dry off completely - top and bottom - they will develop shell infections. To entice them to bask, be sure the temperature on the basking area is at least 10 degrees warmer than the water. Turtles are natural heat seekers. My turtle won't bask unless the temp on his platform is in the low 90's. You'll have to measure the temp in the water and on the platform with a thermometer. To make the platform warmer, move the warm light bulb a little closer to it.

Another critical element is the lighting. Turtles must have lighting that provides good UVB. Lots of people are fooled about UVB because the labeling on some bulbs is misleading. I'm not familiar with your bulb. Is it a mercury vapor type? What's the brand name and what percent UVB does it provide? Without good UVB, turtles' bodies can't absorb the calcium they eat, and they will develop soft shells and deformed bones.

[TimInNY]

I have made a couple of updates.

The 100 watt incandescant basking light they were under burned out about 10 days ago so I plugged in a 100 watt wide spectrum flourescent which burned out after a week, so, after a couple of days of ambient light I bought a 26 watt Repti-Glo 5.0 UVB light.

They also had a 2.5 and 10.0 UVB but the 5.0 says it is ideal for all tropical and sub-tropical reptiles, had a picture of a turtle on the box and came recommended by the teenager in the store.

I also replaced their submerged shelf with a Medium Turtle Dock (No large ones in stock).

I bought a glass in tank thermometer which showed about 70 degrees which is about room temparature which is what I expected after 3 days of no light heating up the water. And, a stick on one that I will put on the inside of the glass near the dock to get an idea of the temparature on there.

I will have to check the temparature after a couple of days to see if it is warm enough. I will probably need to get a heater for the winter, what is a good water temparature?

If they need to go to the vet I can try and find one around me, but I would rather try something a little faster and cheaper.

I saw "All-In-One" treatments in the pet store that proclaim to cure a number of ailments. Are any of those worthwhile?

[chrisinva]

Water temp should be 72 to 75 degrees F for adults and 78 to 80 F for hatchlings...If I were you I would get a heater soon...

Hope this helps some

[TheComputerGremlin]

So, Tim, a few things to consider in your last post:

The lights WILL NOT significantly increase your water temps, unfortunately. You need to buy a heater that will essentially be on year round. I only unplugged mine from June until September, and that's because I don't have air conditioning. Get to the pet store and buy one, they are one of the cheapest items for the turtle's tank. You want to look for one that isn't able to be broken, stealth heaters are recommended, there are some good brands like Hagen. Turtles can and will break the heater, so you want one that won't break but is also reliable. You want to shoot for 75 degrees.

The 5.0 bulb is the right one. 10% is too strong, 2% too weak. The bulb will last for 6-8 months, although it won't burn out. So, be ready to replace it when needed. The fluorescent DOESN'T put off heat, though, and you'll need a regular incandescent bulb in addition to the UVB bulb.

Have you tried scrubbing their shells with a soft toothbrush. Please do that and report back so we can determine if they need a vet ASAP. Sometimes it's just algae buildup, other times, it's urgent that they get to a vet.

[marisa]

What blemishes do you think are shell rot? I'm not sure from the pics where the shell rot you're speaking of is. You can clean the algae with either a soft brush or cloth (it's good to do so---you'll be able to see any other shell problems (if there are any) more easily). If by red areas you're talking about the coloring on the plastron, I've see that on turtles before and really it's never presented a problem, the turtles were still healthy.

If they haven't had a basking area that they could completely dry off on (it should be able to fit both of them comfortably if they want to bask at the same time), and if the temp wasn't monitored to make sure it was in a good range (88-90F), it's not surprising they weren't basking that much. The lack of basking under proper lighting (UVB and heat light both positioned over the basking area) will eventually cause shell problems.

Given the fact you're in NY, your turtles will need a water heater in the winter months unless the ambient air temp in the room they're in is continually no lower than 75F (not many people keep their home temps 75F+ with the price of fuel). For wattage, allow 3-5 watts per gallon of water (I allow for 5), so, for example, a filled 20-gallon tank would take about a 100-watt heater.

I'd skip pretty much any "All-in-One" treatments sold by petstores (out of curiousity, what were you looking at, Dr. Turtle?). Any shell problems your turtles have is the result of inadequate conditions that over time have compromised the health of the shells. It will take a better habitat (including a bigger tank) and time for their shells to show improvement. If they do have shell rot, a herp vet can prescribe medication to treat it, and if speed is what you're looking for they'll respond to the vet's medication more quickly than in this case something from a petstore.